karma

Satyamavejayanti said:

Namaste,

IMO, not beyond karma, but more not attached to the fruits of Karma, or performing NishKama Karma, because the vary act (karm) of setting a example is Karma.

Dhnayavad.

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Maybe, but they submit themselves willingly.

In Srimad Bhagavatam, when Sanatkumaras curse Jaya and Vijaya, Vishnu comes out and says even though I can nullify a Brahmana's curse, I won't, in fact it has my sanction. So someone like that has to be beyond Karma.

spiritualhitchhiker said:

Maybe, but they submit themselves willingly.

In Srimad Bhagavatam, when Sanatkumaras curse Jaya and Vijaya, Vishnu comes out and says even though I can nullify a Brahmana's curse, I won't, in fact it has my sanction. So someone like that has to be beyond Karma.

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I don't think any sentient being with free-will is immune from the karma they create in their own mind via the patterns of thinking/mental habits they lay down via their volitional thoughts and decisions, unless, of course, they direct their will power to stop creating mental habits/patterns of thinking.

I don't think Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva come under sentient beings.

spiritualhitchhiker said:

I don't think Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva come under sentient beings.

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If not, then what are they?

Satyamavejayanti said:

Namaste,

Thanks for the reply, some questions come up in your reply, ill dare to ask.



How do you know your past life? and so specifically?



May i ask Why?



This comment strikes me a bit odd, you associate your self with Christianity which is a 2000 year old tradition, and you say your a Yogi which is far much a older tradition, yet you seem to think that tradition hampers you? its confusing?



What do you mean by the above in Bold?



Dhanyavad

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Humm? I like your questions Dhanyavad, they are nice questions. Theological Concepts: Karma. I do not follow any established Christian tradition and I do not follow any established yogi tradition and I live in a time and in a country where nobody cares if I do or not. And I am a mystic because I do not follow any tradition/established path. I have known Lord Jesus personally since I was five years old and in this lifetime, before I knew about my past, I wanted to be a yogi. So I went to Yogananda's Babiji about it and Lord Shiva came along with him when Babiji showed up to visit. And then after Babiji introduced me to Lord Shiva, he turned me over to Lord Shiva and left. That was twenty years ago. Before that for twenty years Lord Jesus was helping me with my meditations. I am now sixty-sixty years old.

Brahmans? Because of my life actions in this life I would have to be classified an "untouchable". Raja Yoga? I am against raising the "male kundalini" and the use of its considerable power. I am a "male kundalini" master, so I do understand what it is that I am against and why it should go into forgotten lore. It is a very powerful reality with absolutely no heart. It was a part of the ancient Egyptian mysteries, the snake that came out of the forehead into the Eye of Ra. The bird that came out of the forehead into the Eye of Ra was the true female kundalini. And the male kundalini was used by some of the Druid traditions and those folks were hunted to extinction because of the uglyness that they did to their fellow humans. And India has had some problems with those kind of folks in the past. And it is also a part of the Kriya Yoga tradition because they attached a version of Raja yoga to the first initiation. I guess that I am a bit upset about that Dhanyavad . The first initiation was enough and it was ment for householders and now it is all different with some folks charging 250 USD for the first initiation. And just for the record, if one understands the the physics of yoga science, the first initiantion is enough. Isn't "Karm" fun .

crossfire said:

I don't think any sentient being with free-will is immune from the karma they create in their own mind via the patterns of thinking/mental habits they lay down via their volitional thoughts and decisions, unless, of course, they direct their will power to stop creating mental habits/patterns of thinking.

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They are not immune, they just know how to "cheat" .

crossfire said:

If not, then what are they?

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Buddhists might think they are that. But Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu are beyond human comprehension. Sentient simply means to perceive or experience, I'm sure they do a lot more than that.

mystic64 said:

They are not immune, they just know how to "cheat" .

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I don't think that's how it is.

"mystic64, post: 4352743, member: 47630"]Humm? I like your questions Dhanyavad, they are nice questions.

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Namaste,

Thank you for the reply,

Theological Concepts: Karma. I do not follow any established Christian tradition and I do not follow any established yogi tradition and I live in a time and in a country where nobody cares if I do or not. And I am a mystic because I do not follow any tradition/established path.

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I find it hard to understand mystics in general, but that is my problem. Maybe i find it hard to understand why many mystics say that they don't follow any established traditions, yet will continually associate with the figures/icons of importance in those traditions such as Jesus, or would call their practices and spiritual outlook as yogic but still disassociate them self from the traditions that are based in Yoga such as Hinduism. Even mysticism itself, when does it stop being a tradition?

I think the core issue is that Yoga and Jesus are inherently incompatible when we get down to the core principals.

but to each his own.

Brahmans? Because of my life actions in this life I would have to be classified an "untouchable".

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If your talking the Caste system in India today, then i understand your disapproval, Like may other Hindus im dead against it as well. And just to clarify the caste system does not adhere to the Karma theory IMO, as "untouchable", is by birth not Karm, even then this caste system has never been approved by Hindu rishis, gurus, avatars nor contemporary swamis.

Raja Yoga? I am against raising the "male kundalini" and the use of its considerable power. I am a "male kundalini" master, so I do understand what it is that I am against and why it should go into forgotten lore. It is a very powerful reality with absolutely no heart.

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So you don't agree with feminine energy rising in men, nor tapping into the Shakti (feminine) within all?, remember Kundalini is feminine nature. I find this a bit odd, maybe its the years of Christianity and western world view that influences your interpretation.

But to each his own.

Dhanyavad

Satyamavejayanti said:

Namaste,

Thank you for the reply,



I find it hard to understand mystics in general, but that is my problem. Maybe i find it hard to understand why many mystics say that they don't follow any established traditions, yet will continually associate with the figures/icons of importance in those traditions such as Jesus, or would call their practices and spiritual outlook as yogic but still disassociate them self from the traditions that are based in Yoga such as Hinduism. Even mysticism itself, when does it stop being a tradition?

I think the core issue is that Yoga and Jesus are inherently incompatible when we get down to the core principals.

but to each his own.



If your talking the Caste system in India today, then i understand your disapproval, Like may other Hindus im dead against it as well. And just to clarify the caste system does not adhere to the Karma theory IMO, as "untouchable", is by birth not Karm, even then this caste system has never been approved by Hindu rishis, gurus, avatars nor contemporary swamis.



So you don't agree with feminine energy rising in men, nor tapping into the Shakti (feminine) within all?, remember Kundalini is feminine nature. I find this a bit odd, maybe its the years of Christianity and western world view that influences your interpretation.

But to each his own.

Dhanyavad

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Traditions are a set path. A way to do things to get results. Non traditional gets the same results, but do things in a different way. Not understanding mystics is not actually a personal problem . Lets face it, true mystics do it the hard way. This is because they explore things without any kind of a path and without a physically living guru. To the normal rational mind this would not make sense. Which is perfectly alright and understandable. When a person says that they are a mystic, they are also saying that their information comes from somewhere that is not generally considered of this world. Sometimes they claim that the information came from God, a god or goddess, a saint, or some other higher being. But they do not claim that the information came from some living person or the writings of a no longer living person. My information comes from God, Lord Jesus, and Lord Shiva. Because none of those sources can be proved to exist or to ever have existed in the physical world I am either a "nut case" (not sane) or I am a true mystic. Dhanyavad, I do not expect anyone to believe or understand me unless they have experienced what I have experienced. And there is no reason why they should. Everyone is on a path and like Yogananda's Babiji told me when I asked for short cuts, "The path is a part of the experience." You are on your path and I am on my path and we are just sharing some of what our path is about. It is not about you joining my path or me joining your path, it is just you and I comparing notes because it allows us to get posting credits on this message board .

Kundalini? Originally (in ancient times) the two kundalini's were a shaman knowledge that was sex energy that was solidly anchored to the body chakra and then brought up/raised in a certain way into the upper chakras, into those in front of the forehead (the Egyptian Eye of Ra) and into those above the top of the head (the Egyptian Eye of Horus). The Male sex energy was raised in the form of a "Golden Snake" and the female sex energy was raised in the form of a bird. Generally it was some kind of bird that had a long neck, strong beak that soared on large wings (kind of like an American Condor). And both the snake and the bird have been considered to be Divine by a lot of folks. In today's world the concept of the Kundalini has been changed into something else that is different than the two old original Kundalinis. The old ways relative to the male Kundalini are still practiced and taught to advanced students in the Kriya Yoga and the Raja Yoga traditions. If you do an image search on the Goddess Isis you will find images of her with wings and the use of those wings in a spirit sense/visual mind sense is an interesting study. So Dhanyavad, you and I are actually talking about two different things. You are refurring to the relatively newer version of the Kundalini and I am refurring to the ancient version of the two Kundalinis. And what you are refurring to is a valid reality, it is just different than the one that I am refurring to.

spiritualhitchhiker said:

Buddhists might think they are that. But Brahma, Shiva and Vishnu are beyond human comprehension. Sentient simply means to perceive or experience, I'm sure they do a lot more than that.



I don't think that's how it is.

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quote=spiritualhitchhiker:
"I don't think that is how it is."

I know and Spiritualhitchhiker you are probably right . It was an attempt at humor and I am not at all very good at humor.

And what you said to ms crossfire is pretty right on also. At least based on my experience with Lord Shiva. But then the object is for us to become like them. In the beginning they are beyond human comprehension, but as you hang around them (at least Shiva, because I do not know Brahma and Vishnu very well) you become less human and as that happens you slowly begin to comprehend their reality. At least based on my experience with Lord Shiva.

"mystic64, post: 4353794, member: 47630"]

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Namaste,

Traditions are a set path. A way to do things to get results. Non traditional gets the same results, but do things in a different way.

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I have a different opinion, especially regarding getting the same results by using different methods. In Hinduism, we have set methods to get some similar results, if the method is changed then the result also changes. It is similar concept like taking head ace tablets for a broken finger, it just does not provide the same result.

Not understanding mystics is not actually a personal problem . Lets face it, true mystics do it the hard way. This is because they explore things without any kind of a path and without a physically living guru.

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That is quite different from Hinduism, where a qualified Guru is essential to guide one in their sadhna, especially if one chooses a Yogic path.

To the normal rational mind this would not make sense. Which is perfectly alright and understandable. When a person says that they are a mystic, they are also saying that their information comes from somewhere that is not generally considered of this world. Sometimes they claim that the information came from God, a god or goddess, a saint, or some other higher being. But they do not claim that the information came from some living person or the writings of a no longer living person. My information comes from God, Lord Jesus, and Lord Shiva. Because none of those sources can be proved to exist or to ever have existed in the physical world I am either a "nut case" (not sane) or I am a true mystic. Dhanyavad, I do not expect anyone to believe or understand me unless they have experienced what I have experienced. And there is no reason why they should. Everyone is on a path and like Yogananda's Babiji told me when I asked for short cuts, "The path is a part of the experience." You are on your path and I am on my path and we are just sharing some of what our path is about. It is not about you joining my path or me joining your path, it is just you and I comparing notes because it allows us to get posting credits on this message board

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.

Ahh you Mystics, always speaking in tongue , if you give me a "like", for my posts i will believe what you say.

Kundalini? Originally (in ancient times) the two kundalini's were a shaman knowledge that was sex energy that was solidly anchored to the body chakra and then brought up/raised in a certain way into the upper chakras, into those in front of the forehead (the Egyptian Eye of Ra) and into those above the top of the head (the Egyptian Eye of Horus). The Male sex energy was raised in the form of a "Golden Snake" and the female sex energy was raised in the form of a bird. Generally it was some kind of bird that had a long neck, strong beak that soared on large wings (kind of like an American Condor). And both the snake and the bird have been considered to be Divine by a lot of folks. In today's world the concept of the Kundalini has been changed into something else that is different than the two old original Kundalinis. The old ways relative to the male Kundalini are still practiced and taught to advanced students in the Kriya Yoga and the Raja Yoga traditions. If you do an image search on the Goddess Isis you will find images of her with wings and the use of those wings in a spirit sense/visual mind sense is an interesting study. So Dhanyavad, you and I are actually talking about two different things. You are refurring to the relatively newer version of the Kundalini and I am refurring to the ancient version of the two Kundalinis. And what you are refurring to is a valid reality, it is just different than the one that I am refurring to.

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Hmm, there is only one Kundalini, which i know of, which is the Tantrik (sinse you use this Indic word "kundalini".), which has no relation to any ancient Egyptian mysticism, that is something different from a different culture, with different history altogether. But people can link all the parallels to many Hindu practices, but i just don't agree with finding parallels and assuming connection ect, as i don't see the connection or relation, either with any ancient Egyptian mythology or with any Christian mythology with Yoga and its many practices.

Anyways,

Dhnayavad.

Satyamavejayanti said:

Namaste,



I have a different opinion, especially regarding getting the same results by using different methods. In Hinduism, we have set methods to get some similar results, if the method is changed then the result also changes. It is similar concept like taking head ace tablets for a broken finger, it just does not provide the same result.



That is quite different from Hinduism, where a qualified Guru is essential to guide one in their sadhna, especially if one chooses a Yogic path.

.

Ahh you Mystics, always speaking in tongue , if you give me a "like", for my posts i will believe what you say.



Hmm, there is only one Kundalini, which i know of, which is the Tantrik (sinse you use this Indic word "kundalini".), which has no relation to any ancient Egyptian mysticism, that is something different from a different culture, with different history altogether. But people can link all the parallels to many Hindu practices, but i just don't agree with finding parallels and assuming connection ect, as i don't see the connection or relation, either with any ancient Egyptian mythology or with any Christian mythology with Yoga and its many practices.

Anyways,

Dhnayavad.

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There is precedent for Lord Shiva to be one's yogi guru/teacher in Hindu legend and even sometimes in today's world. But because you do not believe in the possible existence of Lord Shiva as a living entity what it is that I am saying is not possible in your reality. Which is ok. And there is precedent in Christianity for Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit to be one's teacher and guide. But because you do not believe in the possible existence of Lord Jesus or the Holy Spirit what it is that I am saying is not possible in your reality. Which is ok. Yes one has to have a qualified Guru to guide one in their sadhna, especially if one chooses a yogi path. You are very much right on that one . I can prove that I am an advanced yogi scientifically and I can prove that I have a close relationship with Lord Jesus and The Holy Spirit. But, I am not going to, because I do not want to have to deal with the notoriety. So "You are right in everything that you have said and I appreciate you having the patience to interact with me." Because both you and I knew that this interaction between you and I was not going to go anywhere. Which is ok. You got to present your side and I got to present my side and we both got some posting credits . And I liked your posts and I injoyed visiting with you.

crossfire said:

If not, then what are they?

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They are Gods of Hindus. BrahmA is nobody's darling, though he overseas creation and fate. There are just a few temples of BrahmA in India. Vaishnavas say that he appeared on a lotus whose stem grew out of Lord Vishnu's navel. Shaivas and Shaktas also make him a creation of Shiva or the Mother Goddess for the job of creation. Vishnu, Shiva and Shakti are the Supreme Gods/Goddess for their worshipers.

Even during RigVeda times (4000 BC, as Prajapati), BrahmA was accused of an attempted incest. Actually, it was not his fault at all. It was a natural phenomenon, precession of equinoxes. At that time the sun rose in the asterism of Orion (Mrigashiras, Antelopes head) on the day of vernal equinox. Due to precession, it moved towards Rohini (Aldebaran). And people picked on it. The accusation continued even after Aryans merged with Hindus and Prajapati was accepted as BrahmA, the creator of Brahma (the universe).

mystic64 said:

I was the father of Yogananda's Kriya Yoga tradition in my last lifetime so I do have a strong affinity to Hinduism and the reason that I am a yogi in this lifetime. In this life I am a Christian and have been since I was five years old, as well as being a yogi and having an affinity to Hinduism. .. If I was to have a problem my problem would be with the conservative Brahmans .. And I reincarnated in the US to be unhampered by thousands of years old traditions. Through Lord Jesus you can go to a more user friendly karmic reality

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Who is Yogananda? Nobody knows him in India. I am against a mixups. You can either be a Hindu or a Christian, you cannot be both. What is your problem with orthodox brahmins who have helped to keep traditions alive in Hinduism? You are born in a land of no traditions. You do not know their value. If Jesus is more friendly, remain with him. Why drag Shiva in the morass?

Aupmanyav said:

Who is Yogananda? Nobody knows him in India. I am against a mixups. You can either be a Hindu or a Christian, you cannot be both. What is your problem with orthodox brahmins who have helped to keep traditions alive in Hinduism? You are born in a land of no traditions. You do not know their value. If Jesus is more friendly, remain with him. Why drag Shiva in the morass?

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Those are valid questions Aupmanyav. And you and I have interacted before on this message board, so we know a bit about each other. Shiva came to visit me until then I did not even know or suspect that he was real. After over twenty years of being friends with Lord Shiva I can honestly say to those folks in India that reverer and love him that Lord Shiva is real. And that he is a loving and beautiful entity/being. Technically I am not Hindu, I just have a strong affinity to Hinduism because of some past life experiences and I am friends with a couple of the Hindu gods and I respect the others. To me they are all real even though I do not know the others personally. To you they are not real, which is ok, I don't mind. And if you were to ask most traditional Christians, they would say that I am not Christian either. Which is why I do not hang out in RF's sister message board ChristianForums.com. And I do not "hang out" in the Hindu DIR of RF because you have made it perfectly clear that I do not belong there. Which is ok, I understand.

Aupmanyav, this topic is in the DIR Theological Concepts and it is a discussion forum. As a theological concept I do not have any problems with the Orthodox Brahman Tradition and because my feelings comes from a past life experience that no longer applys to today's would, according to Dhnayavad, and because Orthodox Brahmans and the other traditions are your world and not mine , I no longer have any problems what so ever with any tradition in India, except maybe the eighth initiation in the Kriya Yoga tradition (which I am lead to believe is a version of Raga Yoga). But because you say that Kriya Yoga does not exist in India, I guess that the whole thing does not matter. Aumanyav, your yogis have been coming to the US to share and promote their traditions ever since Yogananda back in the day came over from India and set up house keeping in California and became a household word and a revered person in some circles in the US. The yoga tradition that he brought with him as a gift to the US was Kriya Yoga. But I guess because you say that you do not know him (Yogananda) that the whole thing is not real. Which is ok with me, I do not mind. And he is just one of many that have come to the US to bring and promote their gifts to US. And just for the record they brought Theological Concepts and in some cases anti Theological Concepts to the US which they, because of our political structure, are free to do. And as a US citizen, that is an advanced student of what they (the yogis) have brought, and who on an international message board, it is ok for me to comment and discuss the theological concepts that they have brought to the US to share and promote with US. Just like you have the right to discuss and comment on anything that some US folk has brought to your country as a theological Concept.

So Aupmanyav, as a strong athiest what are your feelings on the subject of "karma" (Karm )?

Aupmanyav said:

The accusation continued even after Aryans merged with Hindus and Prajapati was accepted as BrahmA, the creator of Brahma (the universe).

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Nothing of the sort happened. There weren't two different people like Aryans and Hindus.

There are various opinions.

mystic64 said:

Aupmanyav, this topic is in the DIR Theological Concepts and it is a discussion forum.
So Aupmanyav, as a strong athiest what are your feelings on the subject of "karma" (Karm )?

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I did not know that you were this tough and cool too.
My views as a strong atheist are simple. Both 'Dharma' and 'karma' exist, but since there is no rebirth, there is no transference of 'karma' to any future life.

mystic64 said:

Just like you have the right to discuss and comment on anything that some US folk has brought to your country as a theological Concept.

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The Evangelist US folk have not brought to India anything other than conflict like their predecessors, the Europeans. But the current government is putting some leash on their activities.

Modi Government's Message To NGOs In India: Big Brother Is Watching You - Forbes

Aupmanyav said:

There are various opinions.
I did not know that you were this tough and cool too.
My views as a strong atheist are simple. Both 'Dharma' and 'karma' exist, but since there is no rebirth, there is no transference of 'karma' to any future life.The Evangelist US folk have not brought to India anything other than conflict like their predecessors, the Europeans. But the current government is putting some leash on their activities.

Modi Government's Message To NGOs In India: Big Brother Is Watching You - Forbes

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Evangelist folks (generally Christian ) aways bring conflict where ever they go . Some don't but most of them do. The three religions that claim Abraham as the father of their begining all have a tendency to be just a bit pushy for some reason. Their foundation is "Love" but sometimes that gets forgotten in the zeal of stuff .

As far as reincarnation is concerned it is my opinion that one lifetime is enough, so I do not have any problem with folk that do not believe in it. And Aupmanyav, I do not really have a problem with folks that are Atheists either. As far as I am concerned if God is real He will say hello someday and from there things will be different . Until then it is all just something to kick around in the forums of a religious discussion/debate message board. And an excuse to get to know people from all over the world and how they feel about and approach things.

Aupmanyav, anytime that you want to jump in and streighten me out about something just do it, I do not mind . It is all just something to do. And I like you, you are pretty smart (intellectually interesting).

I will say the same about you, knowledgeable and smart. Have we accepted each other's friendship?

Aupmanyav said:

I will say the same about you, knowledgeable and smart. Have we accepted each other's friendship?

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Yes we can be friends whether our religious beliefs/experiences are similar or not. You posted one time when someone said that they did not understand what I was saying, "He is the son and friend of Shiva and a contemporary of Babaji." Aupmanyav, I will never forget that . It really helped me to truly understand what it was that I was claiming. And just for fun if one takes the symbol in your avatar picture and visualizes it floating slightly above the top of their head and then give it a spin they will begin to expereince their entire nervious system waking up. And if they give it a counter clockwise spin as in the picture it will bring the energies of their higher self down into them and they will begin to take on tremendous energy mass (some may also experience fear while this is happening), and if they give it a clockwise spin it wil bring them up into the energies of their higher self and they will begin to experience bliss. Aupmanyav, what you have presented with your avatar picture is a very powerful thing if one understands the various meditations that go with the symbol, one of which I have mentioned. And to bring things back on topic, it can enable one to create and shape karmic energy !