Was Islam spread by the sword?

[paarsurrey]

To correctly understand Muhammad's life and as to what happened in Medina one must know what happened at Mecca.
Regards

Oddly, Jesus Christ didn't go on murderous rampages to punish those who persecuted and opposed him.... Strange, eh? OK, ok... he had a bad day once while visiting a temple and flipped over a table....

Jesus ministry was only of 3 years in Jerusalem. As per NT Jesus did command his apostles to sell their clothes* and by swords. Of course, these swords were not for cutting of apples.However Jesus' disciples betrayed him and did not stand with him in the hour of need, Jesus alone was put on the Cross.

*Luke 22:36 "And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.”
Regards

hahahahahahahaha

I don't get one, please express yourself fully.
Regards

#3360

 

[YmirGF]

I don't get one, please express yourself fully.

Your ridiculous post misses an important point, paarsurrey.

Jesus is alleged to have said, "And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword."
No problem there. The point is, if he meant this literally, that he was ordering folks to sell all their stuff to buy swords, then why did NONE of them take him up on the idea and do what he said? Obviously, he meant something else and that point was not lost on his listeners. Meanwhile, Muhammad had no problem rampaging all over the place striking terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. As the old saying goes, " Ye shall know them by their fruits."

 

[paarsurrey]

Your ridiculous post misses an important point, paarsurrey.
Jesus is alleged to have said, "And he said unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet; and he that hath none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword."
No problem there. The point is, if he meant this literally, that he was ordering folks to sell all their stuff to buy swords, then why did NONE of them take him up on the idea and do what he said? Obviously, he meant something else and that point was not lost on his listeners. Meanwhile, Muhammad had no problem rampaging all over the place striking terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved. As the old saying goes, " Ye shall know them by their fruits."

You are simply wrong there. I gave the full sentence from the Bible.
The whole post is "As per NT" as its words say.
Regards

 

[YmirGF]

You are simply wrong there. I gave the full sentence from the Bible.
The whole post is "As per NT" as its words say.
Regards

SO..... what battles did Jesus and his followers wage again? With all those swords they didn't buy?

Oh, by the way, I read the entire passage before and after and you are definitely on glue.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:

Peaceful Spread of Islam in [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus'] Cyprus[/URL]: [1]

---

1. 
   Cyprus
   Country in Europe
   Cyprus, an island in the eastern Mediterranean, has rich, turbulent history stretching back to antiquity. Known for its beaches, it has a rugged interior with wine-growing regions. It’s separated into a Greek south and Turkish north, with the capital Nicosia also divided. Coastal Paphos is famed for its archaeological sites relating to the cult of Aphrodite, including ruins of palaces, tombs and mosaic-adorned villas.

Mosque in Nicosia
Islam in Cyprus was introduced when the island finally fell to Ottoman invaders in 1571. Prior to this, the Muslim presence on the island was itinerant, with Arab raiders intermittently visiting and plundering coastal settlements.

Before the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974, the Turkish Cypriots (the Muslim community of Cyprus) made up 18% of the island's population and lived throughout the island. Today, most of the estimated 264,172 Muslims are based in the north of the island. Turkish Cypriot society is markedly secular though, at least formally, adherents to the faith subscribe exclusively to the Sunni branch, with an influential stream of Sufism underlying their spiritual heritage and development. Nazim al-Qubrusi, the leader of the Naqshbandi-Haqqani order, hailed from Larnaca and lived in Lefka. There are a fewAhmadi Muslims in the country.[1]

History[edit]
Islam came to Cyprus early on in the Arab conquests[citation needed] though a permanent presence only followed the Ottoman conquest in 1571.

It is rumored that an aunt of the Prophet Mohammad, Um Haram, had accompanied one of the early Arab expeditions to the island.[citation needed] She fell off her mule, died and was entombed at the present Hala Sultan Tekke shrine.

Since the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974, the Muslim population in the north of the island has been bolstered by settlers from Turkey who are almost exclusively Sunni Muslims. The status of these settlers is disputed under international law and specifically the prohibition, under the Geneva Convention, on the cross-border transfer of populations by states aiming to engineer changes in the demographic make-up of other states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Cyprus

Country/region:[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus'] Cyprus[/URL]
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:273,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :22.7
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

Islam spread peacefully in [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus'] Cyprus[/URL].
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

You still can't bring yourself into looking at Muhammad's life when he was living in Medina, can you? Right?
Was Muhammad not a prophet, when he was living in Medina (623 - 630)?
Was Muhammad not a prophet when he was on his deathbed (632)?
At that time, Jews were living in mostly in Medina - 3 tribes: the Banu Qaynaqa, Banu Nadir and the Banu Qurayza.
You are right, that Muhammad didn't force any Jew in Mecca to convert before he left Mecca in 622. But ever since he arrived in Medina, he caused troubles, because Muhammad is a petty and vindicated man, when they rejected him as a prophet.
His biased was clear when he had the Banu Qaynaqa expel from their homes in Medina (624) and a bloodthirsty tyrant when he let the men of Banu Qurayza were beheaded in 630, except for the few that converted to Islam.
And he did force the Arab town of Ta'if, at the 2nd siege, in 630. Clearly, you would ignore Ta'if, because you have never addressed any point on Ta'if.
The only reason why I keep bringing up Muhammad's time in Medina, because you won't directly address any of the issues I bring up. You always try to redirect my attention, to Mecca in 610 - 622, when Muhammad had no political or military powers. But he did gain these powers in Medina, and clearly the powers had corrupted him; Muhammad lost his innocence by the time he reached Medina, because he was no longer a peace-loving man.

During those times those persons got converted to Islam most peacefully who were persecuted in Mecca and had to migrate due to it leaving their homes and belongings and the loved ones. Why doesn't one get that?
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

During those times those persons got converted to Islam most peacefully who were persecuted in Mecca and had to migrate due to it leaving their homes and belongings and the loved ones. Why doesn't one get that?
Regards

Why don't you get that examining only the time Muhammed spent in Mecca (and ignoring all that happened after that) as evidence that he was peaceful during his entire rise to power is both extremely selective & downright dishonest?

 

[paarsurrey]

SO..... what battles did Jesus and his followers wage again? With all those swords they didn't buy?
Oh, by the way, I read the entire passage before and after and you are definitely on glue.

Do you mean the swords were to be used for cutting vegetables in the kitchen if not for cutting apples?
Regards

#3360 #3361

 

[YmirGF]

Do you mean the swords were to be used for cutting vegetables in the kitchen if not for cutting apples?
Regards

#3360 #3361

They DID NOT BUY SWORDS, as suggested, so he didn't mean it literally and those around him were smart enough to understand.

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Islam spread by the sword?
No.
Islam did not spread by sword. In fact sword is a hindrance in the way of spread of Islam. Quran provides both commandments and the gist of wisdom of the same; this peculiarity is not retained in book of any other revealed religion.Islam flourishes most in peace with its strong reasonable and rational arguments.
For example:

Peaceful Spread of Islam in Cyprus: [2]

---

Cyprus
Country in Europe

Cyprus ,an island in the eastern Mediterranean, has rich, turbulent history stretching back to antiquity. Known for its beaches, it has a rugged interior with wine-growing regions. It’s separated into a Greek south and Turkish north, with the capital Nicosia also divided. Coastal Paphos is famed for its archaeological sites relating to the cult of Aphrodite, including ruins of palaces, tombs and mosaic-adorned villas.
Islam in Cyprus was introduced when the island finally fell to Ottoman invaders in 1571. Prior to this, the Muslim presence on the island was itinerant, with Arab raiders intermittently visiting and plundering coastal settlements.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Cyprus
Islam[edit]
Main article: Islam in Cyprus

Muslims make up about 18% of the Cypriot population.

Islam was first introduced to Cyprus when Uthman, the third Caliph of the Arab Rashidun Empire, conquered the island in 649. Cyprus remained a disputed territory between the Greeks and Arabs for the following centuries, until it passed to Latin authority during theCrusades. The island was conquered by the Ottoman general Lala Mustafa Pasha from the Venetians in 1570. This conquest brought with it Turkish settlement from 1571 until 1878. During the 17th century especially, the Muslim population of the island grew rapidly, partly because of Turkish immigrants but also due to Greek converts to Islam.
Turkish Cypriots are the overwhelming majority of the island's Muslims, along with Turkish settlers from Turkey and adhere to the Sunnibranch of Islam. Sufism also plays an important role. Historically, Muslims were spread over the whole of Cyprus, but since 1974 they have lived primarily in the north. The Ahmadiyya Community has a presence in north.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Cyprus#Islam

A mosque at Kyrenia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mosques_in_Cyprus

Country/region: Cyprus
Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1]:273,000
Muslim percentage (%) of total population 2010 Pew Report[1] :22.7
Percentage (%) of World Muslim population 2010 Pew Report[1] :< 0.1
Muslim Population Other Sources : -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country
One may like to read the account of one who has refreshed his faith in Islam:
http://ottomancyprus.blogspot.ca/2012/04/islam-and-turkish-cypriots.html

Islam spread peacefully in Cyprus.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
Regards

 

[Kirran]

Islam in Cyprus was introduced when the island finally fell to Ottoman invaders in 1571. Prior to this, the Muslim presence on the island was itinerant, with Arab raiders intermittently visiting and plundering coastal settlements.

This doesn't seem very peaceful.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Islam was first introduced to Cyprus when Uthman, the third Caliph of the Arab Rashidun Empire, conquered the island in 649.

This doesn't seem very peaceful either.

 

[gnostic]

This doesn't seem very peaceful either.

Muslims, like paarsurrey, can't seem to grasp the concept that conquering and invading is not a peaceful act.

Paarsurrey repeatedly quote wiki articles without understanding that Muslims often spread Islam through wars.

 

[paarsurrey]

This doesn't seem very peaceful.

This doesn't seem very peaceful either.

Muslims, like paarsurrey, can't seem to grasp the concept that conquering and invading is not a peaceful act.

Paarsurrey repeatedly quote wiki articles without understanding that Muslims often spread Islam through wars.

1. A country could go to war for many political and other reasons, not necessarily for conversion to one's religion.
2. People don't change their religion to the religion of the invaders, it is an altogether different phenomenon not linked with the battles or wars.
3. Alexander conquered a large part of Asia, nobody changed their religion because of it.
4. When I quote from Wikipedia, I don't change anything written there even if it is against my religion because I could argue against those things reasonably as I am doing now.
5. If people of Cyprus could convert to Islam peacefully now as I have given examples when there is no war going on there for conversion to Islam, that amply proves that it had happened at that time in the past also peacefully.
6. The invaders didn't remain there all the time since invasion. If people of Cyprus converted to Islam under sword, they could have reverted to their previous faith anytime later when there was no sword on their head.

What kept them steadfast on Islam? It is the truth of Islam/Quran/Muhammad that bound them and glued them to this faith. Right?
Regards

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

1. A country could go to war for many political and other reasons, not necessarily for conversion to one's religion.
2. People don't change their religion to the religion of the invaders, it is an altogether different phenomenon not linked with the battles or wars.
3. Alexander conquered a large part of Asia, nobody changed their religion because of it.
4. When I quote from Wikipedia, I don't change anything written there even if it is against my religion because I could argue against those things reasonably as I am doing now.
5. If people of Cyprus could convert to Islam peacefully now as I have given examples when there is no war going on there for conversion to Islam, that amply proves that it had happened at that time in the past also peacefully.
6. The invaders didn't remain there all the time since invasion. If people of Cyprus converted to Islam under sword, they could have reverted to their previous faith anytime later when there was no sword on their head.

What kept them steadfast on Islam? It is the truth of Islam/Quran/Muhammad that bound them and glued them to this faith. Right?
Regards

1. Very true; but that does not negate the fact that Islam became available to wider audiences such as the Cyprians as a result of Muslim/Arab armies launching invasions of neighbouring territories.
2. This statement shows what you know about history: very little. There are many examples of conquered peoples adopting the beliefs of those who conquered them: the numerous people of the American continents; the continental Saxons adopting Christianity after being conquered & repeatedly repressed by the Holy Roman Empire; the peoples of the Levant, North Africa and Asia Minor converting to Islam after being subsumed into one caliphate or another; the Zoroastrian Persians converting to Islam to escape the financial penalty of dhimmitude (even though the caliph's governor was ordered to prevent conversions because the extra revenue was welcome); African slaves being baptised by Christian slavers.
3. That's not a very good example because Pagan religions were not dogmatic, orthodox or doctrinally exclusive. The features of the gods worshipped by various peoples (and, resultingly, how those people perceived the gods they worshiped) in the Alexandrian Empire (and later Successor States) did change as a result of contact with Hellenic culture.

As an examples: the name of the Egyptian goddess Aset became Hellenised to 'Isis' and her cult was changed because she became associated with Greek goddesses like Aphrodite & Demeter. The artwork that portrayed her also changed as Levant cultures became increasingly Hellenistic (Greek-like), and changed yet again after Hellenistic cultures became Romanised as Rome's empire expanded. Also, the rituals involved in worshipping these deities would have no doubt been subject to change as the lines between various gods became more & more blurred.

Before Hellenisation:

After Hellenisation:

Here's Aset's wikipedia entry if you want to have a look at the various changes as cultures mingled: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isis

4) When you quote from Wikipedia you invariably quote things that run counter to your own arguments which shows that both your argument and your use of your main source aren't accurate or honest. You have yet to make a reasonable argument in favour of your position. So far all your arguments consist of blank assertions and deliberately ignoring the evidence put to you.
5) People would be more likely to convert once the fighting had stopped and things had settled down - but that's not necessarily the same thing as Islam spreading peacefully. Islam still got to Cyprus as a direct result of the island being invaded & conquered by the Rashidun caliphate: "Islam was first introduced to Cyprus when Uthman, the third Caliph of the ArabRashidun Empire, conquered the island in 649.". If Muslim missionaries had arrived before the armies and converted the entire island then you'd have a salient point.
6) There's always a sword over one's head under Islam - particularly when it comes to converting away from Islam. Muslims historically and today view apostates as traitors and treat them accordingly.

I don't doubt there were those who heard Islam's message and were convinced by it. The things that most likely kept people Muslim would have been: violent (even lethal) social responses to apostasy which kept people repressed, financial discrimination against non-Muslim dhimmis in the form of the jizyah, a desire to conform to social norms - which is a big factor in any society - and the fact that the younger generations of conquered peoples would be less likely to resist Islamisation as they'd be exposed to it from a younger age.

 

[gnostic]

People don't change their religion to the religion of the invaders, it is an altogether different phenomenon not linked with the battles or wars.

You are still ignoring Muhammad's actions, when the only Jewish men of the Banu Qurayza, whom Muhammad would only spare if they were to convert. The rest were beheaded, about 900 men.

And the only term of surrender that Muhammad would accept from Ta'if after the siege (in 630) is everyone had to convert to Islam. That's compulsion or coercion, especially when Muhammad has a menacing army that turn on Ta'if should they ever reject Muhammad's term.

Muhammad is not a peaceful man. He was a nasty petty man, ever since he arrived in Medina. He is hell-bent on revenge, and anyone wanting revenge is never man of peace.

 

[paarsurrey]

You are still ignoring Muhammad's actions, when the only Jewish men of the Banu Qurayza, whom Muhammad would only spare if they were to convert. The rest were beheaded, about 900 men.
And the only term of surrender that Muhammad would accept from Ta'if after the siege (in 630) is everyone had to convert to Islam. That's compulsion or coercion, especially when Muhammad has a menacing army that turn on Ta'if should they ever reject Muhammad's term.
Muhammad is not a peaceful man. He was a nasty petty man, ever since he arrived in Medina. He is hell-bent on revenge, and anyone wanting revenge is never man of peace.

It is not mentioned in Quran.
Please quote a source of Muhammad's time for authenticity of all that one has mentioned.
Regards

 

[gnostic]

It is not mentioned in Quran.
Please quote a source of Muhammad's time for authenticity of all that one has mentioned.

The Qur'an is not a biography of Muhammad's life, so there are lots of things not covered by the Qur'an.

And even when it does refer to certain events in Muhammad's life, the Qur'an is a very unreliable source.

You don't understand the differences between scriptural literature and history, and I think your education in matters of history is are very limited and narrow.

I have read the Qur'an but I have also looked into historical records or historical accounts.

(Please note that there are differences between accounts and records. Records are like public information, such as birth or death certificates, list of terms of public offices (eg when the reigns of rulers started and ended, or durations of successive rulers), inscriptions on minted coins, etc.)

Sure, it is possible that historical accounts may be unreliable, due to the author's bias or possible tendencies to embellish what they have read or heard (eg oral traditions).

But that's why any decent historian or researchers wouldn't rely on just one source, and would try to verify what each source say. They would find and use as many sources they could possibly find and see if there are any inconsistencies.



The biggest problem is that you are very selective what you read, and have seriously poor reading skills.

Like when you copy-and-paste Wiki articles for this thread, but don't actually read or understand that those same articles actually contradict what you have claimed, about Islam not being spread by wars.

Your devotion to your your faith and religion is admirable, but your knowledge on history utterly sucked. And your credibility is very low here because you don't recognise your errors or don't other people's perspective.

 

[paarsurrey]

Further to Posts #2717, #2720 , #2722, and #2942 in response to OP's Post #1 I have to add:
Those who doubt that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad they should focus on spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam, If it has happened now peacefully, it should be a clear sign for the doubtful that Islam spread peacefully in times of Muhammad.
For instance:

• Now I give peaceful spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in
  
  Ireland [2]

Ibrahim Noonan became an Ahmadi Muslim from Christianity by his own research peacefully, not by use of any force, as one could observe by listening to the following video.

"Why I became a Muslim" - Imam Ibrahim Noonan.

Country:

Ireland
Ahmadiyya population : 500
Percentage (%) of Muslims : 1.2%
Percentage (%) of population:< 0.1 %
Estimate[25]:Lorna Siggins (September 20, 2014). "Persecuted Muslims build first Irish mosque in Galway". Irish Times. Retrieved September 20, 2014.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_by_country

Does one see any sword used for spread of Ahmadiyya true Islam in

Ireland?
Isn't it a glorious sign for the wise? Please

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The Qur'an is not a biography of Muhammad's life, so there are lots of things not covered by the Qur'an.

Quran is not a biography of Muhammad. Quran gives but it was never intended to be. It gives all the characteristics and distinctions of a Messenger/Prophet of G-d in real terms, and that was/is the requirement. Muhammad was the real model of all the prophets/messengers ,therefore, in his person all the prophets/messengers get certification of their truthfulness. And that is the meaning of Seal of the Prophets:

[33:40]Those who delivered the Messages of Allah and feared Him, and feared none but Allah. And sufficient is Allah as a Reckoner.
[33:41]Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah has full knowledge of all things.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=33&verse=40
It is through Muhammad's real character and real distinction that we get confirmation that Buddha, Krishna,Zoroaster, Moses, Jesus (etc,etc,etc) and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad were the truthful prophet and messengers of G-d.

Regards