How should boys and girls be raised

[psychedelicsoul]

Now... I'm not telling you how to raise your kid. Based on my ethical system. Parents have 1 requirement.
Provide you with home, food, education, and care until you're old enough to leave.

Here's how I feel about gender roles... If I had a son I'd teach him to behave more masculine, I'd introduce him to masculine activities that I would do for a daughter. I'd push my boy to grow up tougher than my daughter and teach my daughter to be girlish...
My son finds himself a girlfriend, I'll buy him a bottle of wine and a condom and tell him to go get it...
My daughter finds herself a boyfriend... hold on a minute. Who is this mutha****a? What's his GPA? What's his families income? Is he a real man? Because I'll pull out my set of kendo swords, and he can try again, and again as much as he wants. But he will not be permitted to court my daughter until he can defeat me in a proper duel.

The reason why I'd choose to raise a male one way and a female the other way is simple... it's just my social aesthetic. I don't need some deep philosophical justification...
Isn't it just human nature to want your kids to be something like you? I mean, unless you abuse your kids for not being like you, I don't see a problem with simply trying to spread your ideals and influence to another generation.
I guess since I beli- I mean I know gender isn't a social construct, there's no issue with differentiating it. I mean, animals do it.. Look at most social animals, they have some form of social structure that involves males and females behaving in different ways.
The fact that transgendered people even exist is irrefutable proof that gender isn't something made up by society and religion. It's a psycho-biological phenomenon. Differences in male and female can be found in the brain, observed in the animal kingdom and are prevalent in human society.
I find it absurd to assert that gender differentation in human behavior is a "social construct"

http://www.parenting.com/blogs/show-and-tell/christina-parentingcom/gender-neutral-parenting
If it's okay to do this ****, it's okay for me to do the opposite.. Now, I'm not hating on these parents, despite how much I grossly disagree with thier choice... but still. That's them. I can't objectively call it "bad".

We're the only species on the planet that has a problem with raising boys as boys and girls as girls... You won't find that attitude anywhere else. Not that I'm bad... if you're anti-gender role and you wanna introduce your son to girly clothes so you can take pictures of him, and post the photos on "Lizzy the Lezzy"'s Facebook page to show the other liberal parents how progressive you are... the personally **** you... but... I can't actually call you wrong based on my own moral beliefs.

 

[Thief]

my kids grew up doing similar things....martial arts and whatever....
my daughter grew up feminine....
my son is altogether his own man....

not sure how they figured it out....but they did

 

[lewisnotmiller]

At which point in this process are you focusing on what your kid wants?

 

[psychedelicsoul]

At which point in this process are you focusing on what your kid wants?

When they make it known.
While they're still figuring out who they are, I'd do my best to influence them. But I won't be a dick if they turn out different. I mean, I might be a smartass about certain things but definitely not a total dick.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

When they make it known.
While they're still figuring out who they are, I'd do my best to influence them. But I won't be a dick if they turn out different. I mean, I might be a smartass about certain things but definitely not a total dick.

Fair enough. I asked as my 2 girls are very different, personality wise.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Love them, encourage them to be themselves and to think for themselves, provide support and guidance when needed, encourage them to pursue their dreams and not to underestimate themselves.

Who gives a **** about gender roles. Those will take care of themselves thanks to hormones and their own individual interests. Males will always tend to be one way and females will always tend to be other ways. You don't have to force anything on a person in that regard. I'm naturally a more masculine person. People find where they lie on that spectrum on their own.

@psychedelicsoul , please never become a parent. You'll end up ****ing them up for life. As a survivor of psychological and physical abuse, I can tell you that it scars you for life. It ruins you on a very deep level and you most likely will never be able to completely overcome it. It's not cute and it's not a joke. You, yourself, sound like the product of an abusive upbringing, so you have no business having children or even being in a relationship until you address those issues.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

As for the "gender neutral" parenting thing, I think that's just as disgusting and damaging as trying to force children into strict stereotypical gender roles. Both should be done away with. People need to stop treating children as experiments.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

When they make it known.
While they're still figuring out who they are, I'd do my best to influence them. But I won't be a dick if they turn out different. I mean, I might be a smartass about certain things but definitely not a total dick.

What if your hypothetical son turns out to be an androgynous gay male? What if he turns out to be a full-on gender bender like Jeffree Star?

Would you accept him?

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Love them, encourage them to be themselves and to think for themselves, provide support and guidance when needed, encourage them to pursue their dreams and not to underestimate themselves.

Who gives a **** about gender roles. Those will take care of themselves thanks to hormones and their own individual interests. Males will always tend to be one way and females will always tend to be other ways. You don't have to force anything on a person in that regard. I'm naturally a more masculine person. People find where they lie on that spectrum on their own.

Fair enough. But like anything else, how you raise them will have a factor. A good example is by being a macho tough guy myself and setting an example. Of course, nothing is guaranteed in life. I'm sure, whether you're concious or not, you're gonna do something to try and form your kids into the image you'd want them in.

@psychedelicsoul , please never become a parent. You'll end up ****ing them up for life. As a survivor of psychological and physical abuse, I can tell you that it scars you for life. It ruins you on a very deep level and you most likely will never be able to completely overcome it. It's not cute and it's not a joke. You, yourself, sound like the product of an abusive upbringing, so you have no business having children or even being in a relationship until you address those issues.[/QUOTE]

What are you talking about? My advocation of self-abuse and drugs? It's my religion.

As for the "gender neutral" parenting thing, I think that's just as disgusting and damaging as trying to force children into strict stereotypical gender roles. Both should be done away with. People need to stop treating children as experiments.

I'm not sure either... I wanna agree with you out of my bias against that certain practice. However, when I think about it... As a result of culture, religion, personal values, and a number of other factors. How many different schools of thought have existed in parenting?

You can go from one neighboring country to another and both have totally different attitudes and beliefs on how children ought to be raised. And many of these different places will both produce good, successful kids as well ones who grow up rotten. Plus, a lot of times the way certain cultures raised their kids are more beneficial to their culture but not too good of a thing all around the world.

So as much as it personally disgusts me to think of these new ultra-liberal parenting philosophies.. They're probably no stranger than ideas and traditions. that have existed and do exist all around the world.

 

[Sunstone]

Now... I'm not telling you how to raise your kid. Based on my ethical system. Parents have 1 requirement.
Provide you with home, food, education, and care until you're old enough to leave.

Here's how I feel about gender roles... If I had a son I'd teach him to behave more masculine, I'd introduce him to masculine activities that I would do for a daughter. I'd push my boy to grow up tougher than my daughter and teach my daughter to be girlish...
My son finds himself a girlfriend, I'll buy him a bottle of wine and a condom and tell him to go get it...
My daughter finds herself a boyfriend... hold on a minute. Who is this mutha****a? What's his GPA? What's his families income? Is he a real man? Because I'll pull out my set of kendo swords, and he can try again, and again as much as he wants. But he will not be permitted to court my daughter until he can defeat me in a proper duel.

The reason why I'd choose to raise a male one way and a female the other way is simple... it's just my social aesthetic. I don't need some deep philosophical justification...
Isn't it just human nature to want your kids to be something like you? I mean, unless you abuse your kids for not being like you, I don't see a problem with simply trying to spread your ideals and influence to another generation.
I guess since I beli- I mean I know gender isn't a social construct, there's no issue with differentiating it. I mean, animals do it.. Look at most social animals, they have some form of social structure that involves males and females behaving in different ways.
The fact that transgendered people even exist is irrefutable proof that gender isn't something made up by society and religion. It's a psycho-biological phenomenon. Differences in male and female can be found in the brain, observed in the animal kingdom and are prevalent in human society.
I find it absurd to assert that gender differentation in human behavior is a "social construct"

http://www.parenting.com/blogs/show-and-tell/christina-parentingcom/gender-neutral-parenting
If it's okay to do this ****, it's okay for me to do the opposite.. Now, I'm not hating on these parents, despite how much I grossly disagree with thier choice... but still. That's them. I can't objectively call it "bad".

We're the only species on the planet that has a problem with raising boys as boys and girls as girls... You won't find that attitude anywhere else. Not that I'm bad... if you're anti-gender role and you wanna introduce your son to girly clothes so you can take pictures of him, and post the photos on "Lizzy the Lezzy"'s Facebook page to show the other liberal parents how progressive you are... the personally **** you... but... I can't actually call you wrong based on my own moral beliefs.

So, bottom line, you're saying you're going to raise your kids to be as confused as you are?

 

[psychedelicsoul]

What if your hypothetical son turns out to be an androgynous gay male? What if he turns out to be a full-on gender bender like Jeffree Star?

Would you accept him?

Define "accept"... I think I could accept him looking like Jeffree Star, as long as he doesn't sound like him.

If I had a gay son like this I'd be pretty accepting

 

[psychedelicsoul]

So, bottom line, you're saying you're going to raise your kids to be as confused as you are?

If I'm confused about anything it's irrelevant to how my parents raised me...
I don't take after them at all. All of my beliefs are formations of my own thoughts and individuality. I've been influenced far more by the many, many drugs I've done than by my parents.

 

[SomeRandom]

Meh bugger gender roles. I come from a background where they are still defined strictly and I reject it. I am me, not who they want me to be.
My father raised me to be my own person. He never treated me like I was lesser or supposed to be meek because I am a girl. He taught me ethics, values and love. You can be feminine and be into guy things. You can be masculine and still be into "girly" things. I'm not feminine normally and I like guy things. I'm comfortable enough in my own skin to accept me as me. That's all you should worry about in regards of "gender roles" in your kids. Self esteem.

 

[Deathbydefault]

It is very much within human nature for a parent to try and imprint themselves on their child.
There are scientific reasons behind it, but it's just more or less passing on a bit of you into the next generation.

So long as you aren't forcing them into anything, I don't see an issue.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

People are condemning the gender neutral parenting mentioned, and although extreme I don't see the issue.
Sure it's dumb the parents won't let the child play with specifically "gendered" toys and kept the sex a secret, but ultimately so the child makes their own decisions. I highly doubt they are telling the child it can't have a gender identity, just waiting until they can choose for them self. Although i do understand the comment about it sort of being like an experiment for the parent.
I don't condone it, but I don't see why people are demonizing it so much.

I think boys and girls should be raised more or less the same.
I think they should be raised secularly, with the option to make their own decisions about things like gender identity. If they want to conform, I would support them for doing so, and if they didn't, that's okay too.
I think gender roles are bad and would stray from them, but I would never deny something from the child because it fits a gender role, just as I wouldn't deny a child something for not fitting a gender role.

You're concept of gender not being a social construct eludes me. That is not what modern psychology would suggest (even though psychology is a sort of pseudoscience,) and animals having gender roles also does not prove gender is a social construct because animals on some level still have communities and many animals have developed social "constructs" (ex: ducks have different accents and attitudes based on sex based on geographical location and origin.)

It's quite presumptuous you claiming to know the truth about gender being or not being a social construct when it is an area which is murky and most evidence would point away from what you're claiming.

I'll give it to you that my claim was extreme...

However, even if gender is a social construct. The fact that animals behave differently according to gender, and the existence of transgenderism in nature proves that it's still natural. Much like how you could argue eating meat is a social construct since it's not a biologically necessary function, but it's still a result of nature.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I'll give it to you that my claim was extreme...

However, even if gender is a social construct. The fact that animals behave differently according to gender, and the existence of transgenderism in nature proves that it's still natural. Much like how you could argue eating meat is a social construct since it's not a biologically necessary function, but it's still a result of nature.

Meh. Human history and culture are much more complex than that found in the animal kingdom. So even assuming there is some base difference in the sexes, which of the various expressions found throughout the world is 'natural'?
No...there are lots of behaviours that might be 'natural' which our rational mind should be able to prevent.

 

[psychedelicsoul]

Meh. Human history and culture are much more complex than that found in the animal kingdom. So even assuming there is some base difference in the sexes, which of the various expressions found throughout the world is 'natural'?
No...there are lots of behaviours that might be 'natural' which our rational mind should be able to prevent.

We could, but should we? Honestly, it's subjective. I guess that's why I don't mind culturally influenced ideas about gender. Most people think culture, religion, and labels make people only less free, but I disagree. With the existence

Is a womans place in the kitchen? It is if a woman thinks her place is in the kitchen, then her own reality determines that her place is in the kitchen and raising the kids. Of course, since most women would be appalled at such an assertion it isn't very popular. But it can be true. A woman is actually free to be anything. That means that while women are free to be independent, they're also free to be dependent. They're free to be equal to men, but also free to be less than men. It's all about what makes them feel better. If a woman feels she should be subserviant to men, then it's only appropriate and righteous that men treat her as property. If she sees herself as property than she is property.

But most women don't think that way. But if there exist even one woman who believes that she's less than a man, then the idea that men are superior is in fact a good one. It's just only good for the women who believe it. Since them thinking it's good automatically makes it good.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

But most women don't think that way. But if there exist even one woman who believes that she's less than a man, then the idea that men are superior is in fact a good one. It's just only good for the women who believe it. Since them thinking it's good automatically makes it good.

Give me a baby girl, put her in a vacuum, and I can raise her to believe she needs a man to tell her what to do. The whole point of gender neutral parenting (which I'm not a supporter of, but whatever) is that the only way to make someone able to make an independent decision for themselves is to avoid loading them up with gender stereotypes in their formative years.

Whilst not advocating that, I have no doubt I could seriously mess with my girl's heads if I wanted to. Then then let them make an 'independent' choice and whatya know? They choose exactly what I've been prepping them to choose.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Text-book indoctrination.

Everyone in society has been indoctrinated into something or another, no matter how small.
It could be belief in Santa, the Easter bunny.
It could be "men are better than women" and vis versa.
It could be that guns are good, abortion is wrong, evil is everywhere.

It's difficult not to raise your child with indoctrination that you yourself are pulled into.
So, why bother? Just don't abuse the kid, and let it think for itself.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Text-book indoctrination.

Everyone in society has been indoctrinated into something or another, no matter how small.
It could be belief in Santa, the Easter bunny.
It could be "men are better than women" and vis versa.
It could be that guns are good, abortion is wrong, evil is everywhere.

It's difficult not to raise your child with indoctrination that you yourself are pulled into.
So, why bother? Just don't abuse the kid, and let it think for itself.

You're stating it more strongly than I would, but basically this.