Are there single fathers, who never married, with children in the West?

[leibowde84]

That is a pack of lies. I never said "domestic abuse" Go peddle it somewhere else.

Abuse between spouses in the context of marriage is "domestic abuse". That is just a fact, and is most definitely the subject of this conversation.

 

[Robert.Evans]

So, these are extremist feminist comments from the 60s and 70s. They in no way represent the motives of modern feminism. Does the Westboro Baptist Church represent all Christians?

Did I at any point ever say this was modern day? This is WHAT THEY SET OUT TO DO is what i said. What is a matter with you? I have never seen anyone misunderstnad and misrepresent what someone says other than you. NEVER.

 

[leibowde84]

Did I at any point ever say this was modern day? This is WHAT THEY SET OUT TO DO is what i said. What is a matter with you? I have never seen anyone misunderstnad and misrepresent what someone says other than you. NEVER.

I am saying that your citations have nothing to do with what feminism "set out to do". It merely illustrates what extremists in the movement thought back in the 1960s and 70s.

 

[leibowde84]

Did I at any point ever say this was modern day? This is WHAT THEY SET OUT TO DO is what i said. What is a matter with you? I have never seen anyone misunderstnad and misrepresent what someone says other than you. NEVER.

I've never seen anyone back-peddle their claims as much as you. So there.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Nope ... for the 100th time. I am disagreeing with your claim that "abuse is most often not one-sided". Either you misspoke, or you are dead wrong.

And that all depends on your definition of abuse doesn't it.

Now I have had enough.

 

[leibowde84]

And that all depends on your definition of abuse doesn't it.

Now I have had enough.

Everyone here is discussing abuse between husband and wife ... aka "domestic abuse", which has a specific meaning.

 

[Draka]

This argument has got into a debate of definition. Mine is right which is what you just confirmed. Now we can carry on where we left of about three days ago.
Do not call me dishonest missy.

We are specifically speaking about domestic abuse. Which makes your definition wrong. It is like we are talking specifically about Pine trees and you are defining trees in general and saying how leaves fall from deciduous trees when that's not even what we are talking about.

That is dishonest. You are being so. And my name is not "missy".

I am doing no such thing. I am giving you the definition. Try accepting it

You are giving an erroneous broadbrush definition of a word when we are talking about a specific definition of something which you do not not accept.

And that takes us onto the DEFINITION OF ABUSE, or have you NOT been listenign for a large part of my life?

We have been listening. Unfortunately. And that is why we can see how very wrong you are.

 

[viole]

In your existence there is not: even though you are part of him.
But you do not know ultimate, you only know. I know ultimate. You are free to hold your opinion though and then think you will die never to exist again; but it is wrong, you will.

I know more than ultimate. i know Absolute. All Swedes do.

Ciao

- viole

 

[leibowde84]

This argument has got into a debate of definition. Mine is right which is what you just confirmed. Now we can carry on where we left of about three days ago.
Do not call me dishonest missy.

Even using your broad definition of "abuse" rather than "domestic abuse", you have yet to provide any support for your claim that "abuse is most often not one-sided". It is a counter-intuitive claim no matter what definition you use.

 

[cocolia42]

My point is in the name of equality men are exploiting women in the West, they leave children to be responsibility of the mothers, and the mothers have to become bread-earners as well as the child-carers.

Speaking from the US, women often exploit men. Getting pregnant purposely then collecting child-support checks. I've personally seen this scenario a LOT. I know several women who continue to have children out of wedlock with different men so they can collect the full child support from each man. It's shameful.
I've also personally seen a lot of women refuse to let the fathers have contact with the children. Can't blame the men for that.
And as I said, I live in a conservative state where the courts will side with the mother unless it is clearly indicated that the mother cannot take care of her children. So maybe the fathers are trying to get custody of their kids but can't.
My sister's son was given to his father by the court because she was deemed unfit. And my cousin got custody of his son without having to go to court because the mother agreed to it.

One thing about the west, it's not one size fits all.

 

[savagewind]

We are talking about abuse. Every mention of abuse, especially physical, seems to elicit a response from you about arguments escalating. There need be no argument at all. Do you not understand that? Abuse can happen over completely innocent things but, in the abuser's mind, they must put the smack down because, to them, something isn't exactly how they want it to be. That is a problem with the abuser...not the victim. It is certainly not mostly two-sided. It very rarely is.

It is my opinion that all abuse has no good reason. I have seen the kind of abuse which seems to be for training the abused one to do as the abuser pleases or to stop doing something the abuser disagrees with.
So if an abused partner does something which has angered the abuser and caused physical or mental abuse in the past does @Robert.Evans believe then it is the abused one's fault because he or she did not learn right by the abuse? Because THAT is what it seems like you are saying.

 

[savagewind]

ar·gu·ment
ˈärɡyəmənt/
noun
1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one. Arguments, I agree, are one sided. But, you specifically used the word "abuse" ... very different term (see below).

a·buse
noun
əˈbyo͞oz/
1. a repetitive pattern of behaviors to maintain power and control over an intimate partner. These are behaviors that physically harm, arouse fear, prevent a partner from doing what they wish or force them to behave in ways they do not want. Abuse includes the use of physical and sexual violence, threats and intimidation, emotional abuse and economic deprivation. Many of these different forms of abuse can be going on at any one time.

I think you meant two-sided

 

[leibowde84]

I think you meant two-sided

Yep. My mistake. That was a typo.

 

[savagewind]

An argument is a point of view that you are trying to get someone else to accept, therefore a form of control. That is why there is an argument in the first place.

NOT ALWAYS! Please quit the unconditional assessments.

 

[savagewind]

It takes two to fight. If the abused one fights back with abuse THEN it is two-sided. Is that not obvious?

 

[Debater Slayer]

If someone argues that arguing is abuse, does that mean they are abusing themselves?

Am I overthinking this?

 

[leibowde84]

It takes two to fight. If the abused one fights back with abuse THEN it is two-sided. Is that not obvious?

If the "abused" one fights back, it is no longer "abuse". It is a fight.

 

[Draka]

If someone argues that arguing is abuse, does that mean they are abusing themselves?

Am I overthinking this?

Possibly. Especially when you think about how many times a person internally argues with themselves about something. Or berates themselves over something they have done. "Abusing oneself" takes on a whole new meaning doesn't it?

 

[savagewind]

If the "abused" one fights back, it is no longer "abuse". It is a fight.

And most if not all fights are abusive.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Even using your broad definition of "abuse" rather than "domestic abuse", you have yet to provide any support for your claim that "abuse is most often not one-sided". It is a counter-intuitive claim no matter what definition you use.

because there are all sorts of abuse, even arguments are abuse. You are speaking of one narrow band of abuse. Okay? enough said.