Quran and women

[Deathbydefault]

Our souls are gender-less, we're only males and females on earth, there's a whole chapter in
the quran named "the women" and the first verse says that we're all the same.

O mankind! Be wary of your Lord who created you from a single soul, and created its mate from it, and from the two of them, scattered numerous men and women. Be wary of Allah, in whose Name you adjure one another, and the wombs.
Indeed Allah is watchful over you.(4:1)

As you see the origin is a single soul (not male, not female), from this same single soul God created us as males and females.

I don't believe in souls, spirits, or anything else of the sort.
Men and women are equal? Great. Why can't they equally preform jobs?
Why can't they switch gender roles assigned in the Quran?
Why are gender roles assigned in the Quran anyways? If both genders are equal?

Equality, to me, means having the right to the same treatment, and the same aspirations as everyone else, regardless of gender.
So why then do these books seem to claim equality then toss it out the window?

 

[FearGod]

I don't believe in souls, spirits, or anything else of the sort.
Men and women are equal? Great. Why can't they equally preform jobs?
Why can't they switch gender roles assigned in the Quran?
Why are gender roles assigned in the Quran anyways? If both genders are equal?

Equality, to me, means having the right to the same treatment, and the same aspirations as everyone else, regardless of gender.
So why then do these books seem to claim equality then toss it out the window?

Do you want men to be the ones to get pregnant as well ?

 

[Deathbydefault]

Do you want men to be the ones to get pregnant as well ?

Sure.

 

[delizzle]

I don't believe in souls, spirits, or anything else of the sort.
Men and women are equal? Great. Why can't they equally preform jobs?
Why can't they switch gender roles assigned in the Quran?
Why are gender roles assigned in the Quran anyways? If both genders are equal?

Equality, to me, means having the right to the same treatment, and the same aspirations as everyone else, regardless of gender.
So why then do these books seem to claim equality then toss it out the window?

What are your views on women in the infantry or other ground combat roles?

 

[delizzle]

I don't believe in souls, spirits, or anything else of the sort.
Men and women are equal? Great. Why can't they equally preform jobs?
Why can't they switch gender roles assigned in the Quran?
Why are gender roles assigned in the Quran anyways? If both genders are equal?

Equality, to me, means having the right to the same treatment, and the same aspirations as everyone else, regardless of gender.
So why then do these books seem to claim equality then toss it out the window?

I think the books do focus mutual respect but it is man who toss it out the window.

 

[Deathbydefault]

What are your views on women in the infantry or other ground combat roles?

Fine with it.

I think the books do focus mutual respect but it is man who toss it out the window.

That could be one reason, yes.

 

[paarsurrey]

For me the main issue is - it is enshrined. And what we (most modern folk) may see as worse case scenario can be pointed to as prime example instead. I've seen many say they believe Islam tends to lock people into the past and that can definitely be brought up regards to treatment/view of women.
The best arguments for it are much like the arguments for not outright abolishing slavery. It was for a patriarchal society of the distant past, with fewer resources compared to modern times, etc. That does make it slightly less offensive, oppressive, and so on when viewed as a historical thing - but does nothing as far as addressing it being The Truth, last and best guide for mankind, in the mind of millions today.
If the prime example of a man to be followed also preaches or recites that women are deficient in regards to intelligence, trustworthiness, piety, etc. compared to men - we have psychological conditioning of misogyny, to go along with laws not suited to all later societies.

Well these are ones general comments, neither ascertained from the text nor the context. Now that one's sarcasm spell is over, one may enlighten us with one's real argument keeping in view the text and the context of Quran, as requested of one vide post #138* above. This would show us as to how one discerns the above generalization from it .
We are all ears for one.

*#138. Please base you criticism/comments on the verse and the verses in the context from the clues/words/hints given in the text (as also the context) as given in my post #2 in this thread, for a meaningful discussion.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

So I was making sure that my buddy, @paarsurrey, could make the connection that men and women were equal without the Quran.

I replied. And one liked my reply.
Regards

 

[Shad]

The Atheists have no norms on any issue, in fact they deny not only religion but even having knowledge of science is not required of an Atheist. It is a negative ideology.
Regards

You are expecting views from a view point that does not by definition produce such views. You are putting forward a strawman, nothing more. Hence you will see atheists also say they are humanists as this view provides/produces the type of answers you are looking for. It is not a negative ideology since it neither provides positives or negatives as it is just one view. Again a strawman since you do not understand atheism at all thus project your religious views on to atheism. This is your mistake.

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe that perhaps the reason why women are typically viewed as a weaker or inferior could come from the old hunter/gatherer periods where women did rely heavily on a man's strength for survival. Men typically did the hunting of large animals to provide. Men were the ones who typically protected the family from threats such as wild animals and people who tried to take their supplies. None of these reasons have anything to do with religion. I believe that as mankind began to become more civilized it was difficult for some reason to move away from that mindset. Even in more recent times, let's say a two hundred years ago. Women depended on men to do much of the more physically demanding work such as building their homes and farming. I think it is not until within the last 100 years or so that with the advancements in technology and industry we see superior strength is not necessary for survival. A 100lb woman can be a single mother and still provide for her family even with the lack of a man in her life. She probably could not have done that in earlier periods. Now I know there are those exceptions and I don't want to come across as over generalization. But I think it makes sense.

I am not sure if this is what you were asking but I hope it helps.

To whom your post is addressed? Please
Regards

 

[delizzle]

To whom your post is addressed? Please
Regards

Deathbydefault and paarsurrey

 

[paarsurrey]

Deathbydefault and paarsurrey

To which of my point exactly? Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

We discuss verse by verse, the verses in the context as mentioned in post #2

The Holy Quran : Chapter 4: Al-Nisa'النِّسَاء
[4:29]Allah desires to lighten your burden, for man has been created weak.

Here Quran mentions that man (both men and women) has been created weak.
So both has been mentioned equally in the verse. Right?
Regards

 

[beenie]

That verse isn't referring to physical strength, it's talking about spiritual weakness.

 

[paarsurrey]

That verse isn't referring to physical strength, it's talking about spiritual weakness.

Any clues in the verse or the context verses to that effect please.
Regards

 

[beenie]

It's speaking in metaphor; it's a burden of temptation and life, not a physical burden... He is lessening hardship on his people because we are created spiritually weak. We fall into temptation because we are spiritually weak. In the Qur'an, Allah refers to spiritual strength, not physical, which is why the comparison of physical strength of men and women is irrelevant in this verse.

 

[paarsurrey]

It's speaking in metaphor; it's a burden of temptation and life, not a physical burden... He is lessening hardship on his people because we are created spiritually weak. We fall into temptation because we are spiritually weak. In the Qur'an, Allah refers to spiritual strength, not physical, which is why the comparison of physical strength of men and women is irrelevant in this verse.

I don't agree with you. There are no clue in the text of the verse or in the context verses.
Regards

 

[leibowde84]

You mean you do that to your dependent family members.

1. Advise and instruct them first.
2. Send them to their bed second
   
3. Hit/spank them third .

Right?

Regards

I've never thought of wives as "dependent family members". In the US, at least, once married, a husband and wife share all property jointly. Further, all over the world, more and more wives are disproving your stereotype by being the main breadwinner. My sister is one of them. She makes way more money than her husband, and is the best mom ever.

To claim that women are "dependant family members" is a slap in the face to women everywhere. It is an unreasonable limiting stereotype that has made the world worse-off for way too long.

If you hit your wife for any reason, you are a scumbag. And, to consider them as being on the same level as dependent children is offensive, ignorant, archaic, and pathetic. Nuff said.

 

[paarsurrey]

We discuss verse by verse, the verses in the context as mentioned in post #2

The Holy Quran : Chapter 4: Al-Nisa'النِّسَاء
[4:30] O ye who believe! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except that you earn by trade with mutual consent. And kill not yourselves. Surely, Allah is Merciful to you.

Women and men have no disparity in believing, the verse is equally valid for both. Right.

Regards

 

[leibowde84]

We discuss verse by verse, the verses in the context as mentioned in post #2

The Holy Quran : Chapter 4: Al-Nisa'النِّسَاء
[4:30] O ye who believe! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except that you earn by trade with mutual consent. And kill not yourselves. Surely, Allah is Merciful to you.

Women and men have no disparity in believing, the verse is equally valid for both. Right.

Regards

But, what about owning property jointly as husband and wife legally? Can you address that please?