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Have you attempted theism?
- Thread starter Jumi
- Start date
Marisa
Well-Known Member
Yes I have, and no I didn't. Being religious required I give up too much personal power, with no guarantee that what I'm giving it up to is even there to receive it.
JRMcC
Active Member
Absolutely did. I wound up not being able to reconcile my knowledge and reasoning with any kind of personal God. Echoing @Orbit a little bit there is this other thing. It's something that can't be put into words or comprehended. I know it's there and I've always known, but I think my understanding that this thing was a being of some kind was a misunderstanding. I guess I consider myself a transtheist now. But if I got forced into identifying as atheist or theist I'd have to join the atheist camp.
Never tried the stuff.
Fisher
hidden manipulator
I grew up without religion but i was talking in darkness when i was at a very young. I often was alone so i accepted that i talked with myself. I put it to a person which i called god. I heard god is everywhere. So it could only be him. I guessed. To have something larger than you which only belongs to you and no other human is the right way. You can not tell other people what you believe that they believe your words. So if i return to atheism once a while i just returned to be a believer who is not talking about but still thinkin inside ... question inside. and that is what i think god is... that there are question you come up with no other human is allowed to answer. Because it will turn out to make me blind.
I investigated theism (Catholicism, specifically) at the insistence of my ex. I did so for years.
I never left non-theism, so I never really "came back". Even though I studied, reflected, and went to mass for years (or maybe because of these things), I never felt like I could even pray without compromising my intellectual integrity.
I am honestly not even sure how one would do such a thing. I don't think I will ever fail to think of theism as at least a bit odd.
For a long time when I was young I just sort of assumed (or even "knew") that people saw theistic legends as legends indeed. Not too much unlike superhero tales or the way most people see the Greek gods these days. Useful as archetypes, but not something to take too seriously.
I still feel that way, but I have found to my considerable surprise that many people value belief in their literal existence. Quite often to what feels all the world like a frankly unhealthy level.
But it is just not in me. I have on occasion spoken about the Hindu gods with some enthusiasm, to the point people wondered whether I was a HIndu. But literal belief? I truly doubt it to be quite compatible with me, nor do I miss it at all. I would rather see other people leaving it altogether. It would make the world a better place, perhaps quite a lot so.
Curious George
Veteran Member
Yes. Got results? That seems a biased question. I would say that being part of a religion helps facilitate a connection to others in that group. But it is hard to define results. If you mean greater awareness, I am not sure anyone can find a greater awareness without at least entertaining some level of doubt. This is true in my experience for atheists and non atheist.
If by connection with something beyond, you mean a sense of awe, certainly. But that sense of awe is not necessarily born of of religion or focused on some particular supernatural being. And, while I understand how easy it is to attribute such feeling to a deity or even nature, I think (and feel) such a focus is misplaced. People feel both disconnected and connected naturally. That one feels or thinks such is partly ego and partly truth.
That we associate complexity just beyond our grasp with the supernatural is not new. Nor are the categorization of concepts into a schema and the gathering of evidence to support existing schemata new.
While I can categorize and view things from different perspectives only one of those makes the most sense in my day to day life. So, in these day to day deciscions I use, or believe as an atheist. So in a manner one could say I continually leave non-theism only to return when actual action is required. Why? Because this worldview, or something removed from most religion, makes the most sense for me.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Yes I have and while I was a theist, I had all of those feelings. It was when I decided to actually check out the source of those feelings and verify my religious beliefs against the actual evidence that I realized it was all nonsense. Humans are very good at cognitive biases and simply labeling things we find emotionally significant "God". There's no objective reason to take any of it seriously and when you stop looking to use that label, there stops being any reason to actually use it.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I would never call it experimenting, but I did get "results" from theism that is still with me. They are general such as community. I love religions because I don't see the dogma, I see the sense of community when you are of like mind with others and have good fellowship. I've went to "theist" retreats and learned about, in my case, God. I experienced the knowing that I am not "forever" held responsible for actions I can change. I took away with learning that I "always need help" so I left with knowing that I am worth living and my actions are not who I am just what I do. I learned about authority and how having authority within a religion can help members learn about themselves and others. Members have a sense of belonging to a structure that "together" are responsible for our actions because our actions influences others if we realize it or not. I learned about dogma and doctrine. When I do my pagan rituals on new and full moon, I appreciate what actually makes up the rituals from objects and words to my culture (American) and how that influences how I "worship" or pay respects to the spirits and ancestors. I value prayer. Theism's having a "central authority" is helpful for many people who need someone to fall back on in times of need. I found that was helpful to an extent.
I learned about the spirits and learned about the spirit of Christ when I was part of theism. I never believed in "there is something beyond" so with religions that believe that, I do not associate with anymore. Zen Buddhism lead me away from the theist thought (I wasn't raised theist) that I was indoctrinated with in the past three years. It was a turning point when the Buddha is Not a central role figure but ourselves, are true nature. I found that answers, if you like, come from within not from outside of us. I learned a lot.
That is what brought me to "non-theism" was comparing what I learned and attracted to and what makes common sense and reality. Theism to me seems cultural based. How we are raised, customs, etc tell us how we believe, should believe, or want to believe (regardless the faith). Reality is not a religion. So, I guess you can classify that as non-theism.... having a relationship with reality.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
This question confuses me, because I don't think we can "choose" to believe something. Belief is a natural conclusion reached when the weight of the available information persuades us of the truth of something. You cannot simply "try believing" something, because believing means accepting the truth of that proposition - it is not merely an act of will. You cannot simply choose to believe something if you do not already think it's true, and you cannot choose to disbelieve something once you have accepted it as truth. Your mind only changes when the available information goes against the position you already hold.
For example, I cannot make myself believe that my neighbour is a ten-foot bird as an act of sheer will. As much as I try, I will always be aware of the knowledge I have ascertained about that person that utterly contradicts them being a 10-foot bird, and the sheer implausibility of a ten foot bird existing (let alone one that can rent a room in a house share, and earn enough of a living to pay rent and bills). The only possible way I could come to that belief is if all my previous knowledge were eliminated or overturned.
So no, I have never "tried" theism because you cannot "try" accepting something as true that you do not already accept as being true. I can imagine the world through a theist's eyes and understand their arguments, but I cannot simply choose to adopt their position at will. I am not convinced of the evidence for the existence of a God, and so I cannot just make myself believe that there is one.
Curious George
Veteran Member
What would life be like if your neighbor was a 10ft. bird?
Jumi
Well-Known Member
This I love about RF, so many perspectives to learn from. 
Being a meditator I can see the draw of panentheism. I also have these feelings of "connecting to the universe" sometimes. It's more like a sense of balance than though than true communication. I've been curious if this is the same as many people think is connection to a god. It's also different from a sense of awe, which I understand is universal.
@JRMcC what does transtheism mean for you? I read a bit on wikipedia, but I felt like I was misunderstanding that article.
Having been told by a few theists that if I honestly attempted praying to God or following religious methodology of their own religion or sect, there would be an answer was basically the motivation for me to ask this question. I did pray a few times when I was a child as per instructions I was given, but it never felt it reached anything. I also felt mono or polytheism was an odd belief but still interesting as I think it tells about how our pattern recognition sometimes messes with us.
Being a meditator I can see the draw of panentheism. I also have these feelings of "connecting to the universe" sometimes. It's more like a sense of balance than though than true communication. I've been curious if this is the same as many people think is connection to a god. It's also different from a sense of awe, which I understand is universal.
@JRMcC what does transtheism mean for you? I read a bit on wikipedia, but I felt like I was misunderstanding that article.
Having been told by a few theists that if I honestly attempted praying to God or following religious methodology of their own religion or sect, there would be an answer was basically the motivation for me to ask this question. I did pray a few times when I was a child as per instructions I was given, but it never felt it reached anything. I also felt mono or polytheism was an odd belief but still interesting as I think it tells about how our pattern recognition sometimes messes with us.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Yes, I know what you mean, the sense of expansiveness and connection. For me though ideas about "God" are too limiting, too simplistic, and carry too much baggage.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Maybe this is the reason many theists disapproved of meditation? It seems to be yet another thing that leads to disbelief in personal gods.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Possibly, though there are Christian mystics for example. Obviously though a theist would tend to interpret meditative experiences in a theist way.
JRMcC
Active Member
I tend to think so!
Yeah, that's a junky wiki page. The term isn't anywhere near mainstream so I think its exact meaning is up for interpretation a little bit. Have a look at this: Transtheism: WHAT IS TRANSTHEISM?@JRMcC what does transtheism mean for you? I read a bit on wikipedia, but I felt like I was misunderstanding that article.
I call myself a transtheist because I think that "God" (I don't use that word anymore except for convenience) is...see this is the tough thing, words fail. "God" is a divine reality that can't be comprehended; I'm aware of this divine reality, but my knowledge of it just about stops there. I think it's something beyond time, space, "existence" as we know it, beyond good, bad, and human emotions.
I have vague, abstract thoughts and ideas in my mind about what this transtheistic reality is, but I can't convey them to you. Read the article I posted!
Jumi
Well-Known Member
You're right. Maybe I have some bias there, what I feel might be an illogical conclusion may be different for a theist.