Are Humans Animals

[Madhuri]

Eselam, by saying that humans are animals nobody is arguing that humans are exactly the same as any other animal species. A human is not like an elephant. But an elephant is not like a cat or a rabbit. Yet they are all animals. No creature, even within its own species, is equal or the same.

 

[Gharib]

Ok...firstly, nobody is saying that other animals are humans. Like I said, the word 'animal' does not refer to one species whereas 'human' or 'cow' or 'monkey' are terms that refer to particular species.

i think this is what most people have got wrong.

so to you a black man and a white man are the same? we humans identify as white black asian, or what ever.

and humans just means all those whites, all those blacks etc.

i have 2 pictures i want to show you, but it may take a while for me to find them.

I'm confused. I did not think that Muslims believed that killing is for pleasure. I thought that Muslims killed with respect. Not pleasure. A person who kills or causes suffering to any feeling entity is what is called 'sadistic'. Sadism, which is a negative form of empathy, is usually considered evil. I thought this was also Muslim belief, no?

wha????

muslims do not kill for pleasure. we kill when it is needed, we don't go killing animals and leaving them on the side of the road. we respect animals, all living creatures are respected in islam.

why did you make this an islamic matter? i never said anything about my religion, i was and am talking about humans in general, you, me, everyone else. not muslims, or christians or atheists, but humans. general human behaviour.

 

[Gharib]

Eselam, by saying that humans are animals nobody is arguing that humans are exactly the same as any other animal species. A human is not like an elephant. But an elephant is not like a cat or a rabbit. Yet they are all animals. No creature, even within its own species, is equal or the same.

i understand that. that is obvious.

 

[Gharib]

Plants poop??

yeah, they feed on CO2 and release oxy.

Animals and plants are vastly different. One major difference is sentience.

To a degree there are terms that define our similarities and differences. For instance, all plants and animals a living entities. But not all animals are primates, and not all animals are felines. It comes down to genetic and biological similarities and the human capacity to label what they see.

thats right, just as humans cannot be called animals.

 

[Madhuri]

I am sorry, when you mentioned that humans kill for pleasure I thought you were speaking from your own belief that it is right to do so. In reality I think that a minority of people intend harm to others and the rest cause harm indirectly.

Could you please tell me why you do not think than humans are animals? What do you think being an animal means? Why do you disagree with the definition? After all, we are basically arguing about a definition.

Generally speaking, a group of entities are considered a single species when they are able to successfully, and naturally, produce offspring due to the genetic similarities. That is why an asian and an african can successfully have children together.

 

[Madhuri]

Also what are frubals? I just joined this site tonight and have much to learn about it...

 

[Gharib]

I am sorry, when you mentioned that humans kill for pleasure I thought you were speaking from your own belief that it is right to do so. In reality I think that a minority of people intend harm to others and the rest cause harm indirectly.

not a problem.

Could you please tell me why you do not think than humans are animals? What do you think being an animal means? Why do you disagree with the definition? After all, we are basically arguing about a definition.

we are a developed being, superior to all the rest. now most people whom i have had this same discussion about have hated it when i would turn to religion on this, so i will try not to make it too much religious, although i do have islamic influences on this. but since you are not a muslim you will not like it if i speak about my religion.

i will have to tell you what islam says about this first in order for me to make sense and for you to understand me properly. will that be alright with you?

Generally speaking, a group of entities are considered a single species when they are able to successfully, and naturally, produce offspring due to the genetic similarities. That is why an asian and an african can successfully have children together.

exactly, thats the reason why evolution is false. so i'm guessing you believe in evolution due to believing that humans are animals. am i right?

 

[monta]

yes elephants do grieve, so that somehow makes us equal, ie animals too?

I don't understand why you have such a need to make a table showing how very superior you are to an animal. We are much more intelligent, just as a dolphin is more intelligent than a slug.

educational advantage? thats kind of a funny way to say it. so your pets live at your home due to you giving your kids an education in biology?

Having pets in your home gives you greater insight into animal behaviour, this should be obvious.

you do not need a cat or a dog inside the home to to know that they go crazy when a human dies. i had a calf and a puppy living together, we left the dog at some far place and the calf went nuts about it

same with the pigeons, their chick died and the mother lost it.

Odd that a robot would be programmed to react like this or is it only cows that you erroneosly believe do not react to death, despite the fact that many religions have strict rules forbidding animals from witnessing the death of another animal for slaughter.

in a field there are 1000 cows, all die but 1, that cow wont even move a muscle to see what happened to the others, it will raise it's head to look around, but it will not do anything, it will continue to eat, and wont burrie the other cows. because god has set it to serve us. it's like programing a robot to greet people and then if you go asking it to go and take peoples shoes off it wont do it..

no i mean controll, we use a variety of animals for our needs/pleasures. we've got cows, sheep, goats, chickens, dogs, cats, horses, donkeys, lions, tigers, etc etc (all the animals basically)

Again no one is disputing that we are smarter than other animals, but we are not alone in using other animals for our needs and pleasure, gibbons have been known to keep kittens for pets, polar bears have been seen playing with dogs , cuckoos trick other birds into raising their young, rhino's and aligators allow birds to keep them pest free , ants keep aphids and feed and milk them, there is a species of ant that favours the acacia plant and weed the spot where it grows and defends it against preditors and the most interesting I read was re the african bird, the honey guide and the mammal the honey badger, the honey guide finds bee hives and then actively leads the honey badger to its discovery. The badger tears the hive apart with its strong claws and then feeds on the honey, while the bird feeds on the bee larvae and pupae.

 

[Madhuri]

You are free to tell me your religious beliefs.

I am undecided on evolution. My religious background is Hinduism and Hindus do not believe in evolution. I am only recently begining to think it is possible because I am actually learning about it. But even people who do not believe in evolution will say that humans are a type of animal. This does not make us the same as other species. It only makes us similar biologically. NOT THE SAME.

 

[Gharib]

Also what are frubals? I just joined this site tonight and have much to learn about it...

frubas are just something you get from other members when they like your posts or when they just want to give some out to you.

you can see the number of frubals you have on the right top corner and you can give them from going to the scale button at the top right corner of a post. you can go to USER CP to see who has given you frubals and read the messages too.

they are nothing really, they're just to keep people busy with something.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

Are humans animals?

Of course we are. We only have certain traits that other animals don't have and we lack some that others have.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Wow you guys got through a lot while i was at work.

As far as the control issue i have to say that there is no difference between a human keeping a horse to plow fields than a human keeping slaves to plow a field.

I would love to keep religion out of this discussion along with evolution because im so over the arguments assoiciated with the two.

I would like to point out some similarites between the pack behaviour of wolves and humans.

Wolves form packs, the strongest is the leader. Humans form packs the strongest is the leader. Now strength for humans and strength for wolves are different. In a wolf pack the physically strongest most ferocious wolf is the leader this is because he is able to provide food and security for the pack. In humans the most charismatic and intelligent person is the leader because he can provide food and security.

I could go on and give more examples if you like, just ask but let me assure you that there are great similarities between the pack behaviour of wolves and that of humans. If someone would like to add more i would be more than grateful.

Then their is similarities between primate behaviour and human behaviour.

Yes we are more intelligent and sophisticated but so is a monkey compared to worm. But they are still both considered animals.

 

[Valjean]

I think we're arguing at cross purposes, here. We're operating from different definitions of "animal."
Most of us are arguing from a biological definition. We're defining "animal" by anatomy and physiology; genetics, histology, evolution, &c. Eselam is arguing from a social definition.
The two are incompatable. We can't have a fruitful discussion till we agree in what we're talking about?

 

[Amill]

The only way you can exclude humans from being considered an animal is if in your definition you provide human characteristics that other animals do not have. You have to describe animals by what they are not in order to exclude humans. But if we define animals by what they are, humans can't avoid being included.

 

[Gharib]

look we are not animals. what part of humans not being animals don't you guys understand?

 

[rageoftyrael]

well, being religious, it's easy to understand why you are so against the idea eselam, but it doesn't make it any less true, just cause you don't want it to be. you making the assertion and acting as if it must be true might work in your church, but no here in this forum.

 

[Gharib]

well, being religious, it's easy to understand why you are so against the idea eselam, but it doesn't make it any less true, just cause you don't want it to be. you making the assertion and acting as if it must be true might work in your church, but no here in this forum.

ok then why don't you prove that it is true, it may work, god knows it really may work. or it will not.

 

[Madhuri]

look we are not animals. what part of humans not being animals don't you guys understand?

Again it would be helpful if you provided your definition of 'animal'.

 

[Gharib]

Again it would be helpful if you provided your definition of 'animal'.

well an animals is a creature that is not a human or a plant or an insect.

i don't know if you whant me to go biological or not?

but i will tell you my perspective on this, but will have to explain what islam says about it. and i think you agreed to hear about the islamic veiw on this?

 

[Madhuri]

well an animals is a creature that is not a human or a plant or an insect.

i don't know if you whant me to go biological or not?

but i will tell you my perspective on this, but will have to explain what islam says about it. and i think you agreed to hear about the islamic veiw on this?

I am personally interested in knowing what the Islamic belief is although you cannot expect a non-Islamic person to agree with its idea.

I think what you will find is that we must be having a lot of misunderstanding because of the language used. 'Human' is a term that is defined as an animal. I have a feeling that if you understand this you would actually be arguing that our species is not 'human'. Then you would have to provide a more appropriate term.