When is no path really no path? (Buddhism, bless, religions)

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Somkid

What do you say to a person who says, "I like Zen because I don't need to change anything I do and I can mix it with my current religion"?

It's important to not develop anxiety and guilt. But when is no path really no path?

Specifically, in what way are they using Zen?

[MidnightBlue]

Originally Posted by Somkid

What do you say to a person who says, "I like Zen because I don't need to change anything I do and I can mix it with my current religion"?

Well, I've studied Buddhism for thirty years, but I think until you start to put it into practice it doesn't really mean much.

On the other hand, maybe I'm one of the people you're complaining about. I see Buddhism and Quakerism (at least the kind of Quakerism I've tried to follow) as being practically the same religion, just in Eastern and Western forms. I think Buddhism can inform my Quakerism and vice versa. At various times I'm tempted to identify myself as one or the other or both, but never as neither. For me, this makes a unified path, though it's not a path with a fixed goal, just a way of being, I hope, more aware.

[Somkid]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue

Well, I've studied Buddhism for thirty years, but I think until you start to put it into practice it doesn't really mean much.

On the other hand, maybe I'm one of the people you're complaining about. I see Buddhism and Quakerism (at least the kind of Quakerism I've tried to follow) as being practically the same religion, just in Eastern and Western forms. I think Buddhism can inform my Quakerism and vice versa. At various times I'm tempted to identify myself as one or the other or both, but never as neither. For me, this makes a unified path, though it's not a path with a fixed goal, just a way of being, I hope, more aware.

No, complaint I assure you I'm only asking the question, actually this question was put forward to me by one of my students, to be quite honest I never really thought about it. I was a very weak Christian a long time ago mostly because my parents were but when I found Zen/Ch'an the Western religious ideas faded one by one until there was only Zen. I was a Ch'an monk for 10+ years later to become a Buddhist chaplain and the more I interacted in the world the more the Zen nature took over becoming my nature. So, you see I have no complaint, peeve, gripe or other wise that would not be Zen.

[Somkid]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Specifically, in what way are they using Zen?

Very loosely I would imagine. I suppose I was exposed to some of this in the USA but I never paid much attention to it , most of the people struck me as flash back hippies or people looking for a new age guru and as far as I could tell they missed the point entirely but to each his or her own we all have to do what works for us. I can not personally imagine getting the point of Zen if I were to follow another belief, sure you can take some elements from it like philosophy (which won't really work with most religions), meditation I guess will work with most anything not the actual meditation but the practice and discipline of the meditation. Here in Thailand, when one of my students put this question to me he was referring to the mixture of Lanna religion which is the Thai version of ancestor worship well kind of, and he failed to see how the tow beliefs could mix. The obvious answer is they can not which is why so many people believe the Buddha to be a god and praying for favors is common place. So, I was just trying to get everyones feeling and opinion about this.

[doppelgänger]

Originally Posted by Somkid

It's important to not develop anxiety and guilt. But when is no path really no path?

When you pull out your machete and chop your own way through the underbrush.

As Joseph Campbell eloquently put it in Thou Art That:

The problem in our society and in our schools is to inculcate, without overdoing it, the notion of education, as in the Latin educere - to lead, to bring out what is in someone rather than merely to indoctrinate him/her from the outside. Spiritually, then, we must all seek the Grail by entering that part of the forest where nobody else has cut a path for us.

[zenzero]

Friend Somkid,
[If my understanding is correct of what you ask**
The question that you put is similar to Mountains are mountains.
Before the spiritual journey Mountains are mountains for individuals
after achieveing *Satori* ; mountains are no more mountains.
And finally after Achieveing * Samadhi*; mountains are again Mountains.
Similarly * No paths are no paths* after achieving *Samadhi*.

[michaelm]

Perhaps the problem is labels. we humans tend to love labels, on footwear, jeans and even our spiritual practice. (I recall seeing a Roman Sandal about 1800 years old, with a designer label on it!!! so it seems to be a long term human trait)

Why label it Zen or anything? If part of Zen practice or philosophy interests then investigate or practice it. It may develop into being more fully involved in that or it may drift off and be replaced with something else more suited. The danger is to call oneself Zen and become attached to everything labelled Zen - which is then, I suggest, 'not Zen'

I find labels restrict how others view us, how we view ourselves and how we view spiritual practice. Focus on the practice, or theory. Accept it, reject it, ignore it but dont worry about what it is called.

Spirituality is a personal path, beyond religious labels - well, thats how I see it, anyway.

[koan]

As I see it, mixing other religions with Buddhsim is only OK, up to a point. Meditation, mindfulness and awareness, may be learned without compromising the non Buddhist religion. However, once one begins to examine, "Who am I?" Then other religious dogmas would probably get in the way. An example of this is, a Christian may answer and believe that they are a product of God. This being the case, they will never achieve the Buddhist answer. Because, as we all know, Buddhism does not adhere to a God creator.
I am an ex Christian and since becoming Buddhist, except for the common teachings of love one another and turn the other cheek etc. I can no longer abide by christian dogma.