Meditation (rituals, tradition, God, Zen)

zenzero · #1 03-16-2007, 12:56 PM

The only way is silencing the mind for which meditation is the way.
Meditation happens when the mind stops.
Satori is when you are aware of the mind stopping even for a split second.
Nirvana is when the mind totally stops.
One is no more and goes back to nature.

Let us discuss how each one meditaes and how we can make it going 24 hours a day.
Shall we?
Love & rgds

Engyo · #2 03-16-2007, 01:03 PM

ZZ -

You would probably not appreciate my tradition and school. Our primary meditation form is mantra recitation.

zenzero · #3 03-16-2007, 08:39 PM

First lets try and keep this I, You, me, out of all discussions. One has to raise conciousness which is life, nature, god etc. etc. I , me, you are all indicating the individual mind which is in fact the barrier or the target to be overcomed to reach the goal.
Next, mantra. What and how does a mantra work. Mantra is a key. How does this work? Each mantra has certain vibrations and by constantly repeating it the vibrations unconciously enters the person and slowly reaches his concious level. This is suitable to people who find the direct method of watchig the mind difficult.
All ways reach the same goal but each individual is at a different time space in its journey and so differences will be there but nothing to be worried or nervous about. Each one is perfect. Each one is born enlightened. Just the realisation has to ocme.
Mantra is one way to bring about that realisation.
Now, how does one practice mantra. When does he apply it. A minute study may be more helpful in understanding and making necessary corrections to be able to reach HOME early.
Love & rgds

YmirGF · #4 03-16-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenzero

First lets try and keep this I, You, me, out of all discussions. One has to raise conciousness which is life, nature, god etc. etc. I , me, you are all indicating the individual mind which is in fact the barrier or the target to be overcomed to reach the goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenzero

Next, mantra. What and how does a mantra work. Mantra is a key. How does this work? Each mantra has certain vibrations and by constantly repeating it the vibrations unconciously enters the person and slowly reaches his concious level. This is suitable to people who find the direct method of watchig the mind difficult.
All ways reach the same goal but each individual is at a different time space in its journey and so differences will be there but nothing to be worried or nervous about. Each one is perfect. Each one is born enlightened. Just the realisation has to ocme.
Mantra is one way to bring about that realisation.
Now, how does one practice mantra. When does he apply it. A minute study may be more helpful in understanding and making necessary corrections to be able to reach HOME early.
Love & rgds

Actually ZenZero, you hit on an interesting point. I find I only use my mantra occasionally these days. When I do so, it is almost nostalgic and is in no way actually required. Heck, I can hit primary stages of consciousness while doing mundane tasks like reading, watching TV or chatting on the phone. In some ways, it is like visiting a friend's house. At first you need their address, but after awhile you simply hop on your inner bicycle and go there.

It could simply be people's attachment to rituals but I sometimes wonder why some feel that the method is the destination. Then again, it could be a result of sloppy directions that obscures the destination from view. (Btw: I do not mean to sound like I am centering out Engyo here, but rather it is a general observation about meditation and how people perceive meditation.) Granted I am still new to the realms of meditation, but that is how I view things.

koan · #5 03-17-2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenzero

The only way is silencing the mind for which meditation is the way.
Meditation happens when the mind stops.
Satori is when you are aware of the mind stopping even for a split second.
Nirvana is when the mind totally stops.
One is no more and goes back to nature.

Let us discuss how each one meditaes and how we can make it going 24 hours a day.
Shall we?
Love & rgds

Zenzero, it sounds to me like you are practicing Soto Zen. 1st point, you can't silence the mind, you can calm the mind. 2nd point, If the mind stops there is no consciousness and your only here through consciousness. 3rd point, Nirvana is when thoughts and actions are controlled . 4th point, satori is seeing into the true nature of existence, ie. everthing is empty.
When we meditate, whether by visualisation, chanting, working on a koan, or just watching thoughts, the mind does not stop. We may enter samadhi where it feels as though there is no consciousness and that the mind has stopped, however, the mind does not stop. In fact satori is the seeing into the true nature of existence and realising that all is just mind.

zenzero · #6 03-17-2007, 04:33 AM

Friends,
First on the attachment to rituals.
What is attachment or how does one get attached.
As Koan mentioned evrything is in the mind. this mind likes to do the same thing repeatedly and is slow to taking up new tasks and the one who understands this can control the minds behaviour and simultaneously the persons behaviour changes.
Now what is SOTO ZEN? Frankly I have not studied it and so cannot comment.
Limitations of the use of language to explain the unexplainable could result in differences; the idea is to UNDERSTAND.
Yes the calming of the mind does show reality as it is like the ripples in the lake. No effort can calm the ripples and all efforts will agiotate the lake further and make it more muddy and so one has to allow the ripples to settle on its own and then the reflection can be seen clearly so is the mind.
When like the stopping of the ripples and the thoughtds in the mind reality is clearly visble. The mind is not controlled like the ripples in the lake.
When even the slight movement of the mind remains to create thoughts samdhi is not complete.
Total settlement of thought waves is the goal.
are we now understanding each other?
More as we go along.
Love & rgds

zenzero · #7 03-17-2007, 04:46 AM

The following lines is cut and pasted from SOTO ZEN school website.
To show that neither is breathing nor thoughts to be controlled at any point.
Love & rgds

During zazen, breathe quietly through your nose. Do not try to control your breathing. Let it come and go so naturally that you forget you are breathing. Let long breaths be long, and short breaths be short. Do not make noise by breathing heavily.

Do not concentrate on any particular object or control your thought. When you maintain a proper posture and your breathing settles down, your mind will naturally become tranquil.
When various thought arise in your mind, do not become caught up by them or struggle with them; neither pursue nor try to escape from them. Just leave thoughts alone, allowing them to come up and go away freely. The essential thing in doing zazen is to awaken (kakusoku) from distraction and dullness, and return to the right posture moment by moment.

michel · #8 03-17-2007, 11:14 AM

Do you guys find it easier to meditate on your own, or in a group (usually guided) meditation?

lilithu · #9 03-17-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michel

Do you guys find it easier to meditate on your own, or in a group (usually guided) meditation?

I find that I really like guided meditation. It allows me to relax more and just do it rather than having some small part of me thinking about when the timer is going to go off and then thinking about thinking about when the timer is going to go off.

But if it's not guided, if it's just a group of us sitting and meditating, then I'd rather do it on my own. The presence of others can be distracting.

I'm sure if I were better neither one of these things would be an issue. The Buddha could supposedly not get distracted from his meditation even when there was a commotion going on right next to him.