Just Plain Lost and Confused... (Jesus Christ, priest, ritual, moral)

[DHatcherE]

Hi all,

I am 43 years old and just plain lost, confused, depressed and anxious over religion. I grew up in a conservative Southern Baptist home, was "saved and baptized" at the age of 15 and then just milled about smartly doing my own thing until the age of 40. I spent a career in the US Navy and retired in 1998, had a great job as an engineer until 2001 and then lost all when the place I worked went out of business. My wife got depressed and started having panic attacks which immobilized her and confined her to our home for almost three years. Since she couldn't leave the house and could not be alone either, I was confined to the home for the same period of time.

We started our own business (insurance) from a home office so that we could eat and we struggled until about 6 months ago (at which time our situation became tolerable) just to have a place to live and eat cheap food. During this time (around 2003) I started to seek God in a "spiritual" way. I became disillusioned and mad at "Him" for letting me down. I assumed I was being punished for not living better, acting saved, etc. I got the idea that if I was "more pious" that my situation would improve and as such I got into the Bible and learned it (from a C.I. Scofield, KJV-only, fundamentalist, pre-tribulational point of view) cover to cover.

I also became hateful, homophobic, judgmental, arrogant, proud and basically made a complete jack*** of myself. I even got the idea that if I was an ordained minister and started an internet ministry that God would certainly let me off the hook and so I did just that. That issue (ordination) caused many problems between myself and my wife and I eventually resigned the ordination simply due to the fact that my attitude had become unbearable even to myself and I knew that I was not fit to call myself a minister.

I struggled (daily) with doctrines that no one could really answer (dispensationalism, calvinism, arminianism, etc.) and caused myself a lot of emotional turmoil. I found that most Christians were not willing to talk to me online to really help me sort it all out (recall that I am confined to home still). I eventually found my way to Islam and found MANY good, humble people willing to talk to me and help me sort out my emotional discord. I eventually came to disbelieve Christianity and embraced Islam. Of course this did NOT help matters with my wife at all. She was really mad now. The ordination fiasco was NOTHING compared to telling her I was a Muslim. She does not understand what Muslims believe and nor does she care to. She did not care that I told her that I did not believe in Christianity anymore because I did not believe that Jesus was God. Get this - she said that Christianity does not teach that Jesus was God, Jesus was God's son and that's all. So she does not even know what traditional Christianity teaches.

Anyway, Islam helped me to drop the attitude and become humble, quiet and peaceful. My wife, however; forbade me to be a Muslim. Said that if I believe that crap that I could "pack my stuff and get out". So I dropped it (openly anyway). I eventually came to the conclusion that I did not fully accept Islam either because I could really accept a teaching of "eternal damnation", nor could I accept that God cares if I eat pork, wash right hand before left, asked forgiveness for using the bathroom or owned a dog or the need to bathe completely before praying if I have had a sexual encounter (all of which are Muslim dogma).

I found Deism after reading "The Age of Reason" by Thomas Paine. I was (and still am) enthused with Deism but find it lacking the ability to give me a "moral code for life". I don't exist well (too much engineer in me still) without proof texts, and procedures (how to live), etc. I do NOT believe the Bible to be inerrant, infallible or perfect in any way. I do not believe that Jesus was God Himself come to earth. I really don't know WHAT I DO believe but I know what I don't believe anymore. I can actually (over the course of a literal 24 hour period swear that I am: Deist, Christian, Unitarian, Muslim, Taoist, Atheist. Yep, all of 'em in one day, I change my religion more often than my socks.

I need help sorting this all out and can hopefully gain some insight here, my issues include:

1. How to escape the emotional turmoil that I am in
2. Where to start to sort out my faith (what little there is left of it)
3. How to find a place in which I feel comfortable
4. How to reconcile my faith with the inconsistencies in the Bible, I just can't overlook the mistakes and contradictions, how do I tell what to believe in the face of this problem?
5. What do we do with Jesus? What was He to us? What beliefs are necessary or are NO beliefs necessary?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I have many times thought that perhaps John Calvin was right about predestination / unconditional election and I am just one of those poor souls that is destined to never know what to do or what path to follow, just plain "bound for hell", except I don't believe in Hell, so that puts me right back into quite a quandary.

But in the end it matters not if I believe it or not if John was right.

I feel like such a loser....

[Katzpur]

Hi, Hatch! Welcome to RF. It does sound as if your spiritual life has been an rather unpleasant roller coaster. We have such a great group of people here on this forum with so many different beliefs. Hopefully, you will find some guidance and direction through your interaction with all of us here. I enjoyed your intro quite a bit, by the way. Not many new posters open up quite like you did.

Incidentally, a lot of the Christian doctrines you seem to be having problems with are addressed in a very logical way by Mormonism. (Don't run away screaming yet. We're really not as weird as you might think. ) I don't generally suggest to new members that they consider looking into my religion, but given the background you've shared, I'm going to break my own rule and do that this time. Feel free to explore all of your options, but keep this one open.

[BFD_Zayl]

welcome to the spiritual journy friend, a few of us have gone throuhg the same problem of finding a religion, and then believing in it. take a look around the forums, there are so many nice people here that i'm sure after awhile, you will have found a good many answers to the questions you ask. welcome to the family.

[Bishka]

Welcome to RF. I hope you find what you are seeking.

[bflydad]

First I want to say that I am sorry for your pain. I can only imagine what it would be like to feel adrift without anything solid to hold on to.

You may consider it inappropriate for me to respond. I am Wiccan and so do not fall into any of the categories you listed above. I can't tell you what you should believe or even defend certain teachings over others. As a Wiccan, I will not prosletyze or tell you my path is best. Frankly, I don't believe it is. What I do believe is that my path is best for me. You need to find what path is best for you.

One thing I have found over the years is that there are (almost) as many ways of interpreting the bible as there are Christians (note: I didn't say Christian religions; I said Christians). I remember reading Original Blessings by Matthew Fox and thinking, this can't possibly be Christianity. But it was written by a man who was at the time he wrote it a Dominican priest and who is now an Episcopalean minister.

Here is my suggestion. First, Find a place where you can sit quietly where you know there is no one else nearby that can hear you. Maybe it is in your house in a comfortable chair. Maybe it is besides a lake. Maybe it is by the seashore or on a mountain. Be prepared to stay there a while.

Second start talking to God. Based on what you say, you believe in some form of God, so start talking to him. Let out all of your pain. With all of the pain you've felt it may take a while. You don't have to speak out loud but communicate all of the ways that you feel God has let you down. Don't argue with yourself about whether you should be taking responsibility for things or not. Don't judge what you say. The goal here is to stop thinking and start feeling. By verbalizing your feelings, you are opening up your heart and quieting your brain.

Third, when you have got the hurt, anger, and pain off of your chest, keep sitting there (see why I say this may be a while). Start listening. God is there. Start feeling. When you start thinking that you are being stupid, acknowledge the feeling and let it go; watch it float away like wisps of cotton in a breeze. If you listen long enough you will eventually feel something. Probably not words (although you might), probably just a sense that God is there and that you are loved. You are a wonderful person; you are a worthy person; and you are loved.

Fourth (and this is fourth for a reason), begin thinking about what you believe. Not what you think but what you feel in your heart. Religion cannot begin as an intellectual exercise. It must begin from a connection with divinity. It is only after you have that connection that you can begin to realize your beliefs.

Fifth... here is where I struggle to help you. I do not believe in a God that is omnipotent and omniscient. Therefore, I do not believe I can call myself a Christian (or a Jew or a Muslim). However, there is very little in the Christian faith that I find objectionable (there is a lot in organized Christian religion that I find objectionable but that is different). How can you argue with a religion that teaches that you should love God above all else (note: God exists within you which means this include you as well) and love thy neighbor as thyself? It seems to me that if you can just agree with those two teachings: (1) that Jesus Christ is the son of God and (2) love God above all else; love thy neighbor as thyself, then you can call yourself Christian. If you can go a step further and live within those constraints then I think you can call yourself a better Christian than many. What I think you are struggling with is where to go from there. Reading your post, it sounds like you are educated and not afraid of research. Start looking at different interpretations of Christ's teachings. What do the LDS believe? What do the Methodists? Episcopelians? Baptists? Catholics? Read a lot. It doesn't mean that just because you pick up a book you have to read it all. You may get through a few pages and decide the guy who wrote this is nuts. Put it down, pick up another. I am not suggesting you accept any one sect's teachings whole cloth but if each time before doing this research you go back to Steps 1 - 3 (as much as necessary), then as you are doing the research you can feel confident that it is divinity that is pointing you to the teachings that you should be following.

Sixth, as you are doing your research, write down your thoughts. When you read something and think "ahah!", write it down. When you read something and all of us sudden you have an insight in a different direction, write down that insight. Don't worry about writing down what you disagree with unless it is something that you really feel you have to write down. In general, try to stay positive and connected with divinity as you write.

This process will take a long time. Eventually, you will feel like you understand what it means to be Christian.

In the end, the name you use for divinity is less important than the connection you feel with divinity. However, since for 40 years, the name you have used for your connection with divinity is Jesus Christ, I think that will most likely be the name that will provide you with the best continued connection with divinity. If so, then Jesus Christ is how you know God. Jesus Christ is how you talk to God and Jesus Christ is how God talks to you. Jesus Christ is divinity for you.

I don't know if this provided you any insight or was just a rambling. I hope it helps. I hope you find the peace and love that you deserve.

-Butterfly

[Comet]

There are a ton of us here on RF who can relate to you. Many of us have been to the same place and have been on a spiritual journey for many years. If nothing else, you've come to a good place to ask advise and get some answers.

1. How to escape the emotional turmoil that I am in
2. Where to start to sort out my faith (what little there is left of it)
3. How to find a place in which I feel comfortable
4. How to reconcile my faith with the inconsistencies in the Bible, I just can't overlook the mistakes and contradictions, how do I tell what to believe in the face of this problem?
5. What do we do with Jesus? What was He to us? What beliefs are necessary or are NO beliefs necessary?

That is a lot to cover here, but if you just read about in the forums; you may find a few answers. It sounds like you are searching for many things, I hope you find them some day. Stay strong and don't ever give up

PS- Welcome to RF

[lizskid]

Welcome! There are many here also searching for some answers, as there may not be only one. That may be why we have so many different experiences. I hope you find you can share here and learn along with us!

[Quagmire]

Welcome my friend

Look around this place. Even if you don't find all the answers you're looking for you're bound to find a bunch of people on the same quest that you're on (which is kind of an answer all by itself).

Sounds like you have your eyes open and, IMO, that's a hell of a good start.