I've put it off long enough... (Jesus, hell, bible, Israel)

[kadzbiz]

Originally Posted by RevOxley_501

approach it as a literary work .... as if you are reading a novel try it that way.

Ha, that's the only way I can remember the storyline! I'm imagining a movie.

Originally Posted by PureX

Remember that it's a collection of stories, intended to make you think about God ...... meant to be difficult to grasp. They're meant to cause us to argue ....... Keep in mind that you aren't reading a history book ....... you aren't being given any "answers"...... That's what the bible is ... food for thought ........ That's the way the people who wrote it intended it to be used ....... people have been using these books for many thousands of years.

Yes, it does make you think, but I don't think people need another excuse to argue. Ha. I would've thought it was more like history book, especially when groups like the Seventh Day Adventists (please forgive if I have gotten the wrong group! ) believe that the Earth is only as old as the Bible portrays it to be. ie a bit over 7000 years. I've also been told, and heard many times, that the "answers" are in fact within it, but so far I've not found one to any questions I may have had. Reading it I get the impression that the words of the Bible indeed are definitively describing actual events believed to have occured and not just to create "food for thought". And is it for sake of "better storyline" that certain books have been left out, ie. Thomas's and Mary Magdeline's? Make's me really ponder the whole value of it when decisions were made about what was to be left in and what was to be left out.

Thanks for making me feel so welcome. I yearn to have my eyes opened.

[MysticSang'ha]

Tashe delek and welcome to RF!



I'm rather a maverick when it comes to contemplating the Jehovah God of the Bible.........I am encouraged by my practice to consider selfless compassion toward him along with all other sentient beings. To bestow suffering on another, to allow suffering on another, or to rejoice in the suffering of another is evidence of current suffering on the part of said being.



But, that's just me.




Peace,
Mystic

[Todd]

Originally Posted by kadzbiz

Hello everyone. I'm almost 40 years old and have tried to coax myself into reading the Bible for many, many years. I finally started a few weeks ago. I'm generally a slow reader, but this collection of books is very draining and hard on the eyes as well as the mind. It has opened up so many questions and I have caught myself quoting Bible exerpts to my work colleagues and family just to get their opinion. It's hard to not talk about things raised in this book. I've only read about a fifth of it so far and I must say that I am astounded so far that anyone could accept that this is the word of God, with all the killing of men, women, children and animals and that only one group of people (ie. the Israelites) has been continually offered the acceptance to God. I have been told though to read the whole thing before making any judgement. I've also been told that after I have red it once, I need to read it four more times to even start to understand it. Hmm, is that a brainwashing technique? Anyway, I have taken part in various other forums about different things, so I thought I may as well join a religious one and maybe learn from it too. Pleased to meet you all.

Nice to meet you. I did that about 10 years ago, and then read it a few more times. I'm a slow reader to. You are correct in that you need to read the whole thing before coming to any conclusions. The most difficult book for me to read in the bible was Numbers....and so and so begot so and so and this person begot that person and so on. I fell asleep a few times during that . Welcome to the forum.

[Scuba Pete]

I might make a few suggestions here for you...

The Scriptures never claim to be perfect. There is a reason for that.

Much of what is written is about Man looking for God. However, man loves to blame shift, and so he blames God for all sorts of wars and heinous acts.

When you get to the NT, be sure to focus on the "Red words": those spoken by the author of Christianity. He explains a lot about how hard hearts make men do lots of things in the name of religion.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by kadzbiz

Yes, it does make you think, but I don't think people need another excuse to argue. Ha. I would've thought it was more like history book, especially when groups like the Seventh Day Adventists (please forgive if I have gotten the wrong group! ) believe that the Earth is only as old as the Bible portrays it to be. ie a bit over 7000 years. I've also been told, and heard many times, that the "answers" are in fact within it, but so far I've not found one to any questions I may have had. Reading it I get the impression that the words of the Bible indeed are definitively describing actual events believed to have occurred and not just to create "food for thought". And is it for sake of "better storyline" that certain books have been left out, ie. Thomas's and Mary Magdeline's? Make's me really ponder the whole value of it when decisions were made about what was to be left in and what was to be left out.

Thanks for making me feel so welcome. I yearn to have my eyes opened.

But keep in mind that even children's fairy tales are written as if they actually happened. Lots of stories are written using that format. That doesn't mean that you are supposed to, as an adult, assume that they are recording an actual history. I agree that some religious types do make that assumption, but I believe they do so wrongly. The men who wrote the bible stories did not have the benefit of science, so they did the best they could with what information they had. But even they did not presume the stories to be about actual history, so much as their being about why things and people are the way they are.

The story of Adam and Eve, for example, is a story about the human condition. I think it's a mistake to get caught up in the factuality of the story, and then miss the insight into human nature that the story is really meant to convey.

Also, some of these stories have been born in real events, but were then morphed to better convey human ideas and meaning. As an example, the story of Sodom and Gomorra is actually founded in an actual event. Some archeologists tracked it down and made a documentary about it a few years back. It turns out that there really was a rather wild crossroads town in the desert that bore a similar name as the town destroyed by God in the Koran (the companion story to the one told in the bible). And remains of the town, and even the "brimstone" is still there. Here's what actually happened:

A water source was discovered near a crossroads in the desert. And naturally, a town sprung up around it very quickly. The town was hastily and poorly built, and as many such "boom" towns all over the world are, it was a relatively lawless place. It thrived for several years, and became known for it's wild ways, but as it grew and the people drew upon the natural well with greater demand, they had to keep digging deeper to get at the water. As they drained the water from it's underground well, they created a giant sink hole, that finally collapsed. When it collapsed, part of the town fell into the hole, and the rest of the town fell as a result of it's poor construction, and the quake caused by the sink hole. And time, too, I suppose.

All the people left, immediately, because the water source was gone. And it so happened that in the area this place was, there was a lot of scorched volcanic rock, called "brimstone". Most of the people who passed by this town, only did so once a year. So one year the town was there, and thriving, and the next year all signs of life were gone, and all that was left was a hole in the ground and the rubble of the buildings, and scorched rock.

Naturally, people speculated about what had happened to this town, as it has been laid waste so quickly. And they presumed that it must have been an act of God, as they presumed that most everything was an act of God. So they assumed that God had destroyed the town, due to it's wickedness. And as this story/explanation represented a great truth to them, that they understood and attached importance to it, they told the story for years and years and even eventually recorded it in their scriptures. Even after people had long since forgotten where the town was, or even that it was there at all, they still told the story, because the lesson of the story was more important than the facts or reality of that particular town.

This is how many of the Old Testament stories came about. And as you read them, it's important to understand that the reason these stories still exist is not because of their factuality, or half-factuality. It's because they represent an important truth to those people who told and retold these stories and finally recorded them. All I'm saying is to look for the "truth" in them, not the plausible or implausible factuality.

[robtex]

Kad great to meet you. I went through the same thing at the age of 19 when I first read the Bible's OT. I hope you enjoy your time here and welcome to RF.

[Victor]

Welcome to the forums.

[jamaesi]

Salaam, hello and welcome to RF!

If you don't mind me asking, what translation of the Bible are you reading, Kadzbiz? (And what do you prefer to be called?) I'd recommend reading The Message translation of the Bible to start with... it's a contemporary translation of the Bible so that the speech patterns and wordings are written in the style of modern English today. It makes it less of a "chore" to read. You can read it online here.

Originally Posted by The Message

Genesis 1

Originally Posted by The Message

Heaven and Earth

1-2First this: God created the Heavens and Earth—all you see, all you don't see. Earth was a soup of nothingness, a bottomless emptiness, an inky blackness. God's Spirit brooded like a bird above the watery abyss.

3-5 God spoke: "Light!"
And light appeared.
God saw that light was good
and separated light from dark.
God named the light Day,
he named the dark Night.
It was evening, it was morning—
Day One.

6-8 God spoke: "Sky! In the middle of the waters;
separate water from water!"
God made sky.
He separated the water under sky
from the water above sky.
And there it was:
he named sky the Heavens;
It was evening, it was morning—
Day Two.

As for your other points in your OP, maybe you could start a thread about them in the Religious Debate forums? I'm sure that will turn into an interesting discussion/debate.