white vs. black (ritual, beliefs, pray, Christianity, God)

[jewscout]

In wicca is there such a thing as white and black magic/encantations or is that just a bunch of pop culture crap???? Just curious

[pensive]

There is magic. There are postive applications of magic. There are negative applications of magic. There are ethical applications of magic (which are not necessarily synonymous with positive applications of magic). There are unethical applications of magic (which are not necessarily synonymous with negative applications of magic). But in the end, it's all magic. The magic that can do damage is the magic that can heal. Magic that cannot do one cannot do the other, and is therefore not really magic.

[jewscout]

Interesting pensive....so there's no real distinction between "good" and "bad" types of magic, just the way in which you choose to use it? I'm just trying to see if i'm understanding you correctly

[Fluffy]

Okay there are a few ideas on this. What follows are a few of those very different arguments.

1) Magick has been likened to electricity. Electricity can light homes and create heat but it can also kill. That doesnt make electricity black or white. Therefore, magick is neutral and can be used for good or bad but this is a reflection of the person using it, not magick itself.

2) Magick has been likened to prayer. In prayer you wouldn't expect God to give you an evil response would you? If you prayed for harm to come to someone else then you wouldn't expect this to happen would you? The same goes for magick: it is driven by the God and Goddess who are forces of good and therefore it cannot be used for evil.

3) Magick can be subdivided into different sections such as black and white. These sub sections are determined by the intention behind the ritual. For example if I did a ritual to heal someone but infront of loads of people so that they would think better of me then this would therefore be selfish making the spell black.

4) Magick can be subdivided into different sections such as black and white. These sub sections are determined by the outcome of the ritual. So if a ritual went wrong and ended up harming someone then it would be black even if it were not my intention.

Whether one can say that any of these are not Wiccan I am uncertain. These are beliefs I have heard expressed by people who call themselves Wiccans. My personal belief would be one of the first 2 with a leaning towards the 2nd though I am still undecided. The truth is that Wicca is incredibly diverse and not as well documented (in my opinion). There are not as many centralised beliefs as there is in Christianity for example and so asking a question towards the religion as a whole can sometimes lead to an incredibly wide range of views on what might seem like a very important issue.

[Fluffy]

Would I be correct in thinking, pensive, that your belief would fall into the first category I described?

[pensive]

Originally Posted by jewscout

Interesting pensive....so there's no real distinction between "good" and "bad" types of magic, just the way in which you choose to use it? I'm just trying to see if i'm understanding you correctly

You are understanding me perfectly. To draw on Fluffy's post, I'd say that I tend to take a stance that is akin the first view she desribes.

[jewscout]

wow thanks pensive and fluffy...frubals for ya'll......anything else anyone cares to add is more than welcome!

[Fluffy]

Yay thanks jewscout . And not that I mind being defined as a she or anything but I am actually a guy, pensive.

[pensive]

Originally Posted by Fluffy

Yay thanks jewscout . And not that I mind being defined as a she or anything but I am actually a guy, pensive.

Oops. Mea culpa.

[Master Vigil]

For a wiccan, shaman, taoist, pagan, etc... seeing a tree bud is magic. Watching a stream flow is magic. For an artist, painting is magic, music is magic. For another, it may just be boring old nature, or just a boring piece of colored canvas, or just another song. But to an open spiritual person, its magical. Don't be so closed minded Anglo.