white vs. black (ritual, beliefs, pray, Christianity, God)

[Prima]

I agree with what Fluffy and C1 have said..there are practitioners who intend harm or good, spells that cause harm or good, but the magick is neither bad nor good. It's just power.

Also, I object to the term 'black' for a very simple reason.

Black encourages the idea that darkness is bad/wrong/evil, whatever. This viewpoint is pretty contrary to a lot of pagan ideas and is very narrow. There's a lot of comfort or power in darkness - anyone who's been outside at night can see that.

And yes, that's a Taoist idea, MV

[michel]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

For a wiccan, shaman, taoist, pagan, etc... seeing a tree bud is magic. Watching a stream flow is magic. For an artist, painting is magic, music is magic. For another, it may just be boring old nature, or just a boring piece of colored canvas, or just another song. But to an open spiritual person, its magical. Don't be so closed minded Anglo.

Of course, M.V; there is nothing as magical as seeing any creature being born. I think when people discuss 'magic' in this context they are actually talking about 'supernatural powers', and they are much like anything in the world; the intent of the one using the power dictates wether it is for good or for bad.

[Master Vigil]

I understand Michel. However, I don't believe in the supernatural. Because if it happens, it is indeed happening in nature, and thus natural. The spirits are natural, tao is natural, magic is natural, chi is natural. It may be uncommon for someone to experience it. But it is indeed natural.

[Prima]

I think we're getting offtopic

But before I thought that, I thought that people use 'supernatural' to mean anything with power that they don't necessarily understand. Your example - a baby being born - there's certainly power to that! And there's something about it that we can't quite grasp. However, it's not really 'supernatural'

[kreeden]

Prima is correct . Some say that the natural beauty of B.C. is " supernatural " , meaning it is beyond what may be considered natural elsewhere . ... And of course MV is also correct . Supernatural is natural .

Back on topic . I don't think that Darkness is , as much as it isn't something . For excample , darkness is the lack of light , not a shade of light . So , if one was truely practicing " dark " magic , I would have to wonder what it was lacking ? Magic ? { no , I know that they mean that it lacks Light , as in Goodness } . Now , I believe that most Wiccans burn candles in their Rituals . I have to wonder , does the Flame care what colour that candle is ? No , of course not . Magic is that Flame . It doesn't care neither . It just is .

As such , would not Spellcraft , or Prayer for that matter , come down to an act of Will ? { ok , I will likely get burnt at the stake for that one , but think about it } . Without the Will , nothing would ever be done in the first place . One joins their Will with another to aid them , and it is called " Good " or " Light ". One puts their Will agaisnt another , and it is called " evil " or " dark ". It is the Will directing the Force that is Light or Dark , not the Force . The Force is beyond such concepts .

And may the Force be with you ... sorry , could help myself there .

[Master Vigil]

I have to spread some karma around before I give you frubals Kreeden. I agree, as is everything in this universe. The force is objective, how we use it and perceive it is subjective (shades of goodness and evil.) There is no such thing as black or white magic. It is just magic.

[michel]

Originally Posted by Master Vigil

I understand Michel. However, I don't believe in the supernatural. Because if it happens, it is indeed happening in nature, and thus natural. The spirits are natural, tao is natural, magic is natural, chi is natural. It may be uncommon for someone to experience it. But it is indeed natural.

You are right, of course, M.V; I stand corrected.

[Master Vigil]

Originally Posted by michel

You are right, of course, M.V; I stand corrected.

Its ok, you can sit down.

[fabbers]

no. pop culture crap all the way