gerald gardner (tradition, pagans, bible, religion, Wicca)

[goldlioness]

*ok before i begin this i dont want to offend ANYONE so i apologise

i am 18ys old and have beed studying wicca/witchcraft for 4 years and i have just relised i dont like gerald gardners work. i have read the witchcraft bible by janet and stewart farrar and my friends who i was going to set up a coven with but we decided not i came out with this "i dont like gerald gardner, i want to work the old ways" they all looked stunned and they only managed to pull out one book.

and i have been trying to get a book on the oldways and it seems impossible
whats everyones views

[Gentoo]

First, I'd have to ask what you consider to be the "old ways". I follow what I consider to be old ways without much trouble.

[Mike182]

we don't know much about the *old* old ways, what is it you were looking to follow?

[Scarlett Wampus]

Gardnerian Wicca is mostly derivative of occult freemasonry and very much a twentieth century production so I can imagine why you might be looking elsewhere. Unfortunately the "old ways" could mean lots of things, as has been said. If that means European Pagan traditions prior to the 15th-16th century then very little of them remained after that period and what does remain might not seem too witchy. Also, we live in very different world to the Pagans of yore ( sry) so remnants of such old ways you may find could prove to be mostly irrelevant.

[Kcnorwood]

Saying you want to follow the old ways doesn't mean alot because no one REALLY knows what the old ways are. None of us were really there so we have taken bits of what we do know & tried to make some sence out of it.

[MaddLlama]

If by "old ways" you mean that you are under the impression that Wicca is really an unbroken tradition from before the Dark Ages, then I think you need to read some updated material.

Not agreeing with Gardeners work is fine, however it's important to understand the history before you can really figure out the religion. His work is really not much more outdated than the Farrar's, just to let you know.

Just a tip, don't read anything that uses Margret Murray as reference material. And, don't just read the things you agree with.

[goldlioness]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

If by "old ways" you mean that you are under the impression that Wicca is really an unbroken tradition from before the Dark Ages, then I think you need to read some updated material.

Not agreeing with Gardeners work is fine, however it's important to understand the history before you can really figure out the religion. His work is really not much more outdated than the Farrar's, just to let you know.

Just a tip, don't read anything that uses Margret Murray as reference material. And, don't just read the things you agree with.

i believe witchcraft predates everything ok and i was an healer in my pastlife which to me helps you may believe that wicca is not an unbroken tradition but i do and i hate people telling that it is not (just for information there have been other relics discovered not just margret murrey and almost every book i have read referes to her ) are you saying every thing i have read is rubbish???????

[goldlioness]

i am sorry for letting rip but i read that article on floffy bunnies and that just added to my anger i thought part of the wiccan rede was live and let live. ok i am sorry you have your beliefs and i have mine ok i am sorry

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by goldlioness

i believe witchcraft predates everything ok and i was an healer in my pastlife which to me helps you may believe that wicca is not an unbroken tradition but i do and i hate people telling that it is not (just for information there have been other relics discovered not just margret murrey and almost every book i have read referes to her ) are you saying every thing i have read is rubbish???????

If every book you've read uses Murray's material as fact, then you would do well to go out to your bookstore and buy a book written after 1980. All of the original books reference Murray and the "old religion", but modern research into the history and development of Wicca have shown the idea of an unbroken tradition of witches hiding from their Christian masters is simply a fairy tale born out of wishful thinking. There is no evidence at all to support such a claim.
I'm sorry if it hurts your feelings, but it is important for people, especially modern Wiccans and Pagans, to stand up for true history, and not just the history that makes us feel good.

Here are some links for your education:

http://wicca.timerift.net/old_religion.shtml
http://wicca.timerift.net/murray.shtml
http://wicca.timerift.net/history_real.shtml
http://www.geraldgardner.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Wicca
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Murray
http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_hist.htm

And, if after that you still insist on believing that Wicca is an ancient religion, then I suppose you can believe falsehoods and go on about your way.

[BFD_Zayl]

I'm with Maddllama on this one, Wicca is not ancient, in fact, I Thin Wicca was founded...what...around 1940? somewhere around there.