Not quite understanding.... (hell, pagan, pray, Christians, Christ)

[OneoftheLost]

Originally Posted by Circle_One

For the record, what do you consider "True Wicca"?

Hmm.. thats a toughie. I really don't have much experiance with Wicca or Wiccans. I guess I will give you a list of sorts to explain what I believe Wicca is.

WHAT I BELIEVE WICCA IS:

1. A religion that focuses on the worship of the Goddess and God through rituals and some time spell-casting.

2. Practioners usually operate as Solitaries or within a Coven.

WHAT I BELIEVE WICCA IS NOT:

1. Witchcraft. From my rudimentary understanding of the ideology and religion behind wicca I believe that while the two are similair, they are also quite different. The biggest differences seems to be in the methods/morals. While Witches seem to use their witchcraft for power and personal gain, Wiccans seem to use it more for worship or other reasons. Also Wiccans to me seem a bit more organized, a bit more structured when it comes to their practices. While Witches, being mostly solitary or in very small groups all seem to be doing their own things, and as a result vary greatly.

2. Mediazed. ( yeah, the english language doesn't control us anymore! Dont let actual words hold you back! make your own!) by this I am referring to mainly the few practioners that I know. These individuals seemingly know nothing of the established practices set down by.. (er..I ferget her name, but she wrote down a bunch of rules... :P ) and Mr. Gardner (although this can be argued, as most of his stuff is seen as old...) and more or less go by what they have seen on tv or movies. (Blairwitch 2 anybody? HORRIBLE MOVIE. Redhead was a Wiccan though...) So basically I don't believe that young, troubled teenagers who dabble in charms and such to be 'different' are wiccans. (I know numerous...) So basically these are what I consider NON-Wiccan.

Ugg..I can't remember any more points from my first post....

Anyway this is all based on my extremely limited knowledge of the subject. ( Im trying to learn more, but its kind of taking a back seat to familiraizing myself with latin and Aramaic.)

So basically its all subject to change if I get proven otherwise.

Also Circle, you and Zayle seem to have conflicting views on magic/magik. I was wondering several things that may have lead to this.

1. Is magic/Magik universal? I mean lets say we have necromancers and.....Voodooists. Are they practicing sects of the same thing? Or is it the same thing that they have given different names? Or is it a different force entirely?

2.Since you both (I assume.) have very different backgrounds and religions involving spell-casting maybe you were taught in a way taht emphasized the danger/non-danger of the art.

3.Maybe Zayle's practices are generally safer then yours? I mean maybe your 'stuff'
for lack of a better term is more dangerous due to the nature of it? Or maybe you try more dangerous stuff , and have been taught that it is extremly dangerous, where as Zayle generally does small things, and has been told that it is not dangerous......

Anyway just wondering about that......

Mhmm...food for thought. all juicy and ripe to pluck. (just watch out for worms!)

[Circle_One]

Originally Posted by OneoftheLost

WHAT I BELIEVE WICCA IS:

1. A religion that focuses on the worship of the Goddess and God through rituals and some time spell-casting.

2. Practioners usually operate as Solitaries or within a Coven.

Yeah, that's a good general idea of what it is. I'm sure the actual Wiccans on RF could enhance your knowledge on it more, though.

WHAT I BELIEVE WICCA IS NOT:

1. Witchcraft. From my rudimentary understanding of the ideology and religion behind wicca I believe that while the two are similair, they are also quite different. The biggest differences seems to be in the methods/morals. While Witches seem to use their witchcraft for power and personal gain, Wiccans seem to use it more for worship or other reasons. Also Wiccans to me seem a bit more organized, a bit more structured when it comes to their practices. While Witches, being mostly solitary or in very small groups all seem to be doing their own things, and as a result vary greatly.

To really define the two as seperates, keep this in mind:
Not all Witches are Wiccan, but all Wiccans who practice Magick are Witches. (However, one doesn't need to practice Magick, to be Wiccan... though some choose to debate that fact).

2. Mediazed. ( yeah, the english language doesn't control us anymore! Dont let actual words hold you back! make your own!) by this I am referring to mainly the few practioners that I know. These individuals seemingly know nothing of the established practices set down by.. (er..I ferget her name, but she wrote down a bunch of rules... :P ) and Mr. Gardner (although this can be argued, as most of his stuff is seen as old...) and more or less go by what they have seen on tv or movies. (Blairwitch 2 anybody? HORRIBLE MOVIE. Redhead was a Wiccan though...) So basically I don't believe that young, troubled teenagers who dabble in charms and such to be 'different' are wiccans. (I know numerous...) So basically these are what I consider NON-Wiccan.

Ok, just so's you know, We (Wiccans and Non-Wiccans alike) call these kids "Fluffs". Just thought I'd point that out incase you run across one of our threads and have no idea what we're talking about when we say "Fluffs". It's how we distinguish the "True Wiccans" from the "Not true Wiccans"

Also Circle, you and Zayle seem to have conflicting views on magic/magik. I was wondering several things that may have lead to this.

I'll try to answer as best I can

1. Is magic/Magik universal? I mean lets say we have necromancers and.....Voodooists. Are they practicing sects of the same thing? Or is it the same thing that they have given different names? Or is it a different force entirely?

Well, this is probably to be debated, depending on the beliefs of the person you ask.

In my personal opinion, all Magick is derived from the same, universal source. It's how the practioner uses it personally, that causes the outcome of the spell, or the power of the source, to vary.

For instance: You'll notice (not really around here, but elsewhere), that some people tend to throw around the terms "Black" and "White" Magick, in reference to good/evil Magick.

However, Magick doesn't have color. It all comes from the same source. It's the desire and heart of the Witch that ultimately decides whether the outcome of the spell will be good or bad, not the Power itself.

2.Since you both (I assume.) have very different backgrounds and religions involving spell-casting maybe you were taught in a way taht emphasized the danger/non-danger of the art.

I'm really, honestly not sure. I've never been taught anything, I've learned everything I know, on my own.

All I can say, from my personal knowledge, and experience, is that Magick (and the source thereof), is extremely powerful, and anything that powerful, in the hands of the inexperienced, is potentially extremely dangerous.

3.Maybe Zayle's practices are generally safer then yours? I mean maybe your 'stuff'
for lack of a better term is more dangerous due to the nature of it? Or maybe you try more dangerous stuff , and have been taught that it is extremly dangerous, where as Zayle generally does small things, and has been told that it is not dangerous......

Again, I can only speak from my experience, not Zayl's, however I definitely wouldn't consider my casting dangerous.

It just basically stands to reason though, that harnessing anything that powerful, is potentially harmful. I don't know many who would disagree.

Hope that helps

PS. Just a quick tip: When you're trying to post something, and it starts to take a while to go through, just highlight your whole post and hit Ctrl + C, to copy your post. And if it ends up not going through, all you have to do then, is hit the back button to get back to the thread and paste your already copied post into the box thingy. That way you don't have to try and remember what you typed

[OneoftheLost]

Oh ok thanks! Gives me something to mull over.

P.S. ooh, thanks. Now I can hit the submit reply button without getting flashbacks!

[Mike182]

Hi lost, welcome to the forum

Originally Posted by OneoftheLost

Hmm.. thats a toughie. I really don't have much experiance with Wicca or Wiccans. I guess I will give you a list of sorts to explain what I believe Wicca is.

WHAT I BELIEVE WICCA IS:

1. A religion that focuses on the worship of the Goddess and God through rituals and some time spell-casting.

2. Practioners usually operate as Solitaries or within a Coven.

this is a good first step in understanding Wicca, but it isn't quite as simple as this. in my opinion, to understand Wicca you have you have at least a basic understanding of Gardner and the history of the religion.

i am not Wiccan because i do not strictly believe in what Gerald Gardner (the founder of Wicca) laid out, but i am heavily Wiccan influenced. as with many religions, there is a set of stories, tales or mythologies to compliment the beliefs, and Gardner came out with some specific mythologies concerning the Wiccan God and Goddess. Gardner had stories about the Goddess being born, growing, and dying to be reborn again, and stories about the God being a duality of Holly and Oak, and one key story to how the God and the Goddess relate. these i can describe in greater detail later if you wish, but i'm trying to make this relevant to the question in your thread while still giving a bit of background

one of the Goddess mythologies is based on the goddess being reborn, and bringing magic into the world to keep the world alive! Gardner believed that there were Divine forces that kept the world turning, these forces turned in cycles, and that through practise and meditation and ritual we can access the potential these cycles hold.

so we have to split ritual practice into two groupings, those which are meant to honor the God and the Goddess, and Those which are intended to better the self.

why cast spells for the self? humans have always tried to better themselves, why build houses? why harvest corn? why eat? at the end of the day these mundane things are to help us as a people, why restrict this to only the mundane?

WHAT I BELIEVE WICCA IS NOT:

1. Witchcraft. From my rudimentary understanding of the ideology and religion behind wicca I believe that while the two are similair, they are also quite different. The biggest differences seems to be in the methods/morals. While Witches seem to use their witchcraft for power and personal gain, Wiccans seem to use it more for worship or other reasons. Also Wiccans to me seem a bit more organized, a bit more structured when it comes to their practices. While Witches, being mostly solitary or in very small groups all seem to be doing their own things, and as a result vary greatly.

Wicca and Witchcraft do differ, but Wiccans often engage in witchcraft.

2. Mediazed. ( yeah, the english language doesn't control us anymore! Dont let actual words hold you back! make your own!) by this I am referring to mainly the few practioners that I know. These individuals seemingly know nothing of the established practices set down by.. (er..I ferget her name, but she wrote down a bunch of rules... :P ) and Mr. Gardner (although this can be argued, as most of his stuff is seen as old...) and more or less go by what they have seen on tv or movies. (Blairwitch 2 anybody? HORRIBLE MOVIE. Redhead was a Wiccan though...) So basically I don't believe that young, troubled teenagers who dabble in charms and such to be 'different' are wiccans. (I know numerous...) So basically these are what I consider NON-Wiccan.

as C_1 said, "Fluffs"

Anyway this is all based on my extremely limited knowledge of the subject. ( Im trying to learn more, but its kind of taking a back seat to familiraizing myself with latin and Aramaic.)

cool! don't worry, please ask all the questions you need to, we were all at the stage of initial learning at one point

So basically its all subject to change if I get proven otherwise.

yep, just like the rest of my life.

[BFD_Zayl]

Originally Posted by OneoftheLost

Also Circle, you and Zayle seem to have conflicting views on magic/magik. I was wondering several things that may have lead to this.

1. Is magic/Magik universal? I mean lets say we have necromancers and.....Voodooists. Are they practicing sects of the same thing? Or is it the same thing that they have given different names? Or is it a different force entirely?

2.Since you both (I assume.) have very different backgrounds and religions involving spell-casting maybe you were taught in a way taht emphasized the danger/non-danger of the art.

3.Maybe Zayle's practices are generally safer then yours? I mean maybe your 'stuff'
for lack of a better term is more dangerous due to the nature of it? Or maybe you try more dangerous stuff , and have been taught that it is extremly dangerous, where as Zayle generally does small things, and has been told that it is not dangerous......

Anyway just wondering about that......

Mhmm...food for thought. all juicy and ripe to pluck. (just watch out for worms!)

1. magic is universal in a sense, but whenever I do it, it just feels....different from when I practiced witchcraft, not worse, not better, just different.

2.oh yes, when i was learning I was taught many things that could have been dangerous, also things that can be dangerous all on their own. we are living, we have life energy pumping through us. touching the energy of death and channeling it through you can disrupt this if you are not careful.

3. I do not see my practice as safer, the fact that we must consider things months in advance and wear all sorts of protective sigils, cast sheilds, etc. before doing anything supports that, and as stated above we are using the energy of death, where "life" energy usually is.

[OneoftheLost]

Hmm..spells, magic,magik, these are things I will probably never understand. Interesting nonetheless.

Oh and thanks for the explanation on Mr. Gardner. Although Im curious as to how he can just come up with these explanations for things and people believe him...or was it like he recieved a vision? Im a bit confused as to why people followed what he said...since last I checked he was neither god nor goddess.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by OneoftheLost

Hmm..spells, magic,magik, these are things I will probably never understand. Interesting nonetheless.

Oh and thanks for the explanation on Mr. Gardner. Although Im curious as to how he can just come up with these explanations for things and people believe him...or was it like he recieved a vision? Im a bit confused as to why people followed what he said...since last I checked he was neither god nor goddess.

I think people followed him because his ideas made sense to them. Why else would anyone follow another persons ideas like this? And he probably came up with the ideas because in his musings they made sense to him, and it just caught on like a wildfire. That's really how I think religion works. You don't need to be a god to have good or different ideas.

[Guitar's Cry]

Magick is practical for those who wish to be more spiritually aware. It can act as a psychological tonic or buffer, keeping the practitioner happy and healthy to delve into the depths of Spirit.

I am of the opinion that magick is performed by most everyone. We all have our little rituals and ceremonies we perform that are extraneous to practical everyday use, but help us in other ways. Like carrying a lucky coin or using a specified path to work.

Of course, in the strictist sense, I also believe that every action we do is magickal. My favorite quote from Aleister Crowley is "Every man must do magic each time he acts or thinks...a thought is an internal act whose influence ultimately affects action, though it may not do so at the time."