Silver Ravenwolf? (pagans, Wicca)

[Circle_One]

Yeah, I agree.

Sorry for derailing your thread, ML

[cunfuzzled]

I tried to learn about wicca and it's beliefs for sooo long (over 10yrs!)...
I went to several different websites, did internet research and so on. I even tried looking for a local "coven" to kinda know what it was about. My sister was working in a book store about 7 yrs ago and a guy came in to buy books on that subject and she told him of my interest and said he was a priest or coven leader or something for the military and I went to meet him. he told me all kinds of diff. things...they made snese..over about a 2 year span ,we went and did a maypole dance thingy...did other stuff..but it seemed too..i duno..commercial? The only stuff I could find and that was suggested was her "To ride a silver broomstick book" .
I thought it was wierd. Between her, Scott Cunningham and anther guy Buckland something. So when I got back to the US I went to every book store I could find...spend TONS of money and bought ALL sorts of books..I eventually gave up and figured it wasn't the right path. It shouldn't be so hard, rt? I beleive i learned some of the basic principles that probably seems like fluff now apparently...

Anyway....does anyone here have a suggestion on a book to read for someone who wants to know the basic concept, it's history. I have seen so many websites that say wicca just started not to long ago...other websites claim paganism as one of the oldest relgions...and christianity made it bad.. ??***??? hence my name...confuzzled!

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

Where did you hear she wasn't using that name anymore? She just published a new book in September, and nothing is different.

perhaps not a reliable source - i was talking about silver to a friend at Pagan society a few weeks ago, and she commented that 1) she now uses another name to publish under (but the publishers have a contract that allows them to carry on publishing stuff in her name or something - this might not be true, it's just hear say.) and 2) that she isn't even a practising wiccan or Pagan.

i guess even the Pagan community's definite information on her is shakey

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by cunfuzzled

Anyway....does anyone here have a suggestion on a book to read for someone who wants to know the basic concept, it's history. I have seen so many websites that say wicca just started not to long ago...other websites claim paganism as one of the oldest relgions...and christianity made it bad.. ??***??? hence my name...confuzzled!

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

The religious tolerance website actually has some really good beginner information on Wicca.
History in a nutshell.....Wicca is a modern religion that was started by Gerald Gardener sometime in the mid 1950's. We don't know exactly when he got involved in this, but he published his book Witchcraft Today" in 1954. Gardener, we think, believed that he was initiated into an unbroken ancient Pagan religion by a woman named Dorothy Clutterbuck. The idea that Wicca is actually an ancient religion was also taught by Margret Murray, who wrote the introduction to Gardener's book, and a book of her own on the subject. However, Murray's information was much less than credible and her theories about a surviving ancient witch-cult were debunked sometime in the 80's, I think.
We don't really know where Wicca came from since Gardener claimed what he did, but the best theory we have is that Wicca was invented by Gardener using the works of Murray, Crowley and Charles Leyland (Aradia, Gospel of the Witches, another historically inaccurate book), and also used sources from ceremonial magic groups such as the Golden Dawn.
Wicca is still going through it's growing pains, but it's shaking off the idea that Wicca is an ancient Pagan religion. Few people actually think so today, and those that do are mocked by the greater Pagan community. Sensible Pagans know thier real history and embrace it, and don't call Margret Murray a "good author".

Getting back to the topic, does anyone know if SRW references Murray in any of her works? I have heard such, but the last time I read a SRW book was 10 years ago.

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by Mike182

perhaps not a reliable source - i was talking about silver to a friend at Pagan society a few weeks ago, and she commented that 1) she now uses another name to publish under (but the publishers have a contract that allows them to carry on publishing stuff in her name or something - this might not be true, it's just hear say.)

Hmm....can publishers even do that?

and 2) that she isn't even a practising wiccan or Pagan.

Well, whoever told you that is wrong. She is, she runs a hoitey-toitey elitist group of covens in Pennsylvania, called the "Black Forest Seminary Circle". I heard (and I don't know if this is true), that she charges non-members to participate in thier open gatherings.

Do you guys think that authors with a dubious grasp on history are to be avoided altogether (like silver, Fiona Horne, and Edian McCoy), or do the books contain some good information if you know how to find it? I guess it's very hard to find an author where you agree with just about everything they say.....so far the only author that I haven't found any major objections to (in thier works) is Deborah Lipp....but she doesn't write beginner stuff. (She's also very nice, and informative "in person", if not a lot self-important. I should bump the topic here that I got from her..).

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by Circle_One

Yeah, I agree.

Sorry for derailing your thread, ML

Don't apologize. ^_^ I rather enjoy doing the same things myself. But I rarely get the chance to since I'm not really a Pagan anymore =)
Any thread on authors who create fluffies is going to turn into a thread on fluffies. I don't really mind, in fact it's related so it's technically still on topic.

I suppose I should state my opinion on her then.
I don't really mind her. I think that some of her information is inaccurate, and some of dubious morality. But, I do think she presents beginner information in a clear way. I just wouldn't recommend her to someone who knew nothing. I have actually been considering buying some of her books for a review - I'm pretty sure I would like to be a part of Paganism again, but I feel like I should start from the beginning.
Fiona Horne on the other hand, I would never buy one of her books. Because, I don't believe for a second that she is a real practicing Pagan. I believe she is a down-on-her-luck musician looking to make a few bucks. Her books, from what I have read, don't demonstrate a real depth of knowledge on the subject, and I think she's just trying to be "the next Silver", and is failing miserably because she's a fake.
Edain Mcoy.....well, I'm on the fence about her. Her celtic history is way off, so I have heard, which is odd since she has a degree in history. I also notice that she purpetrates the Murray lies sometimes too. I really don't know what to think about her.

I probably should have named this "fluffy authors" instead.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by cunfuzzled

Anyway....does anyone here have a suggestion on a book to read for someone who wants to know the basic concept, it's history. I have seen so many websites that say wicca just started not to long ago...other websites claim paganism as one of the oldest relgions...and christianity made it bad.. ??***??? hence my name...confuzzled!

They're both right. Wicca is only 50-60 years old, the founder was Gerald Gardner, but paganism is old. But paganism isn't a religion. Confused yet?

Paganism is a term used to describe a bunch of religions that stem from ideas based from times before Christianity emerged. Ideas like celebrating the Earth, Sun and Moon for food, light and warmth. Under the term Paganism, you have religions like Wicca. It's kinda like saying Protestant-ism falls under the term Christian. Does that help any?

Originally Posted by cunfuzzled

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

Have you tried Raymond Buckland's The Complete Book of Witchcraft? And though I haven't read it, I think Scott Cunningham's Living Wicca has at least some history in it.

[MaddLlama]

Living Wicca is more about how to invent your own Wiccan Tradition. Solitary Practitioner, his first book, has more beginner info and history =)