Trouble forming a relationship with the God and Goddess (rituals, Earth)

[spirit]

Hi, i've been researching religions for well over a year,from very small groups like Caanite reconstructionists to Ceremonial magick and the Abrahamic faiths. I feel that Wicca may just fit with me and i have bought some books and done a bit of research, however i'm having trouble with the concept of the God and Goddess, although i do know one can view them as symbolic, they are asked to be present in ritual, drawing down the moon etc. which might pose a problem for me

I don't think i favour duality so much, since i believe in an unconditionally loving God( this does mean unconditional, much more so than the Abrahamic faiths) a God who needs/requires nothing and his/her/its will is that we do our will and wishes we exalt ourselves to our spiritual beginnings, although she/he/it is a grand spirit rather than any anthropomorhic entity with permeates and is of the universe. I believe that we are manifstations of this spirit and are this spirit who wants us to use the universe as we see fit and i believe we have come to Earth to experience,rather than know ourselves,we forget our spiritual "heritage" in order to fully experience ourselves in this life etc. and that life is meant to be a complete joy etc.

I also believe that the elements have a spirit and also the animals, so i think that rather than praying to certain deities (since we are all deities), i think that i might prefer praying/ asking guidance from the elements and those bodies that represent them ie. a river or the flame themselves. I would very much appreciate some insight into everyone's views.

[Mike182]

Merry Meet! welcome to the forums, Spirit

i must appologise, i'm not entirely sure how to respond to your post, because it sounds to me like you are having a wonderful spiritual journey of discovery, so i am reluctant to start throwing my spiritual oppinions into your mixture

sadly i don't know of much Wiccan literature to point you towards either, though a few of our other members will gladly do that i'm sure, if you would like.

by the sounds of it, your beliefs as they stand at the moment are fully acceptable under the term Wicca, did you feel that in some way they weren't?

sorry, i'm not much help at the moment


Mike

[spirit]

Yes, since whenever i have come across Wiccan sites they always talk of The God and Goddess and encorporating them into rituals and communicating with them,but that doesn't seem to fit. Certainly from Scott Cunningham's books and others, we must speak to the deities, we cannot dismiss the deity and we are supposed to fear the deity since we are "puny wiccans" or are "unworthy". That seems to be more along the lines of the Abrahamic faiths to me and i think it's abhorrent.

Also,he and others would talk of the different facets of the deities ie Godess of the harvest and God of agriculture etc. whereas i tend to appreciate these elements for themselves. For example when out in nature i commune more with the trees etc. rather than asking a deity to help me with a certain problem, although i may ask the Great Spirit/God and also my family in such situations.

Above all, i think that i communicate more with nature and spirits really,so i'm not sure if that is more Shamansitic; however, i don't think Shamans tend to celebrate nature festivals as Wiccans do. So really, i think i'm stuck between the two paths.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by spirit

Yes, since whenever i have come across Wiccan sites they always talk of The God and Goddess and encorporating them into rituals and communicating with them,but that doesn't seem to fit. Certainly from Scott Cunningham's books and others, we must speak to the deities, we cannot dismiss the deity and we are supposed to fear the deity since we are "puny wiccans" or are "unworthy". That seems to be more along the lines of the Abrahamic faiths to me and i think it's abhorrent.

Also,he and others would talk of the different facets of the deities ie Godess of the harvest and God of agriculture etc. whereas i tend to appreciate these elements for themselves. For example when out in nature i commune more with the trees etc. rather than asking a deity to help me with a certain problem, although i may ask the Great Spirit/God and also my family in such situations.

Above all, i think that i communicate more with nature and spirits really,so i'm not sure if that is more Shamansitic; however, i don't think Shamans tend to celebrate nature festivals as Wiccans do. So really, i think i'm stuck between the two paths.

hoot! syncretism!

Scott Cunningham has some good ideas, but i agree with you, his idea about fearing deities is contrary to my belief of what the deities are. i like to worship my Gods, that is what feels *right* to me, but many on here see the Gods as wanting a relationship with us based on an equal footing, so we are not under any obligation to worship them, and we most certainly shouldn't fear them.

[Feathers in Hair]

Absolutely what the others have said! When you proclaim yourself a servant of the gods, it creates a certain relationship. Others might enjoy having that relationship with the gods, but I don't think all of us do. (I should note that I'm speaking as a Pagan and not as a Wiccan, though.) I have a friendship with the deities- some closer than others, naturally- but I won't bow to any of them that didn't recognize that they need to bow back.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by spirit

I also believe that the elements have a spirit and also the animals, so i think that rather than praying to certain deities (since we are all deities), i think that i might prefer praying/ asking guidance from the elements and those bodies that represent them ie. a river or the flame themselves.

This stuck out to me, and seems to suggest that you are leaning more towards folk magic than Wicca. I don't know if you've read Scott Cunningham's Earth Power and it's 'sequel' Earth, Air, Fire & Water but they talk exclusively on folk magic. And they're good books

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

This stuck out to me, and seems to suggest that you are leaning more towards folk magic than Wicca. I don't know if you've read Scott Cunningham's Earth Power and it's 'sequel' Earth, Air, Fire & Water but they talk exclusively on folk magic. And they're good books

Folk magic is something i've not really looked into yet, i think i will have to do so after my investigation into heathenry!

thanks for that post, frubals!

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Mike182

Folk magic is something i've not really looked into yet, i think i will have to do so after my investigation into heathenry!

thanks for that post, frubals!

OO! Thank you!

I was into folk magic for two or three years before I had a personal experience with the Goddess I really liked it, but I had learned the lesson(s) I needed from it and moved on.