Eclectic Wicca (moral, tradition, beliefs, pagan, moral)

[Gentoo]

At what point does Eclectic Wicca not resemble Wicca anymore? In other words, one can only pick and choose what elements they like for so long, still calling it Wicca, where is that line between being Eclectic and being something else entirely?

To answer my own question, I would have to say that when roughly 50% of what you've chosen is outside the realm of Wicca. OR, when someone else comes along and wants to learn from you, specifically showing them the ropes of your Eclectic-ism.

Any other thoughts?

[Mike182]

i have seen different definitions of what "wicca" is, and what "eclectic" is - for clarification at the start of this discussion, would you care to lay down your definitions?

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Mike182

i have seen different definitions of what "wicca" is, and what "eclectic" is - for clarification at the start of this discussion, would you care to lay down your definitions?

Wicca, in terms of traditions, be it Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Dianic etc. And by Eclectic, taking bits from each of the traditions, and also from other religions, Pagan or not.

Does that help?

[Gentoo]

Anyone? No one...?

[Khaine]

I would say it would not resemble wicca when the wiccan rede and other such wiccan beliefs are not upheld as the mainstay of said eclectics personal beliefs.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by Khaine

I would say it would not resemble wicca when the wiccan rede and other such wiccan beliefs are not upheld as the mainstay of said eclectics personal beliefs.

Khaine, welcome to the forums

i personally disagree with this, because other than a personal acceptance of the moral code within the wiccan rede, i don't think it stands on any authoriative grounds for wiccans, and thus not something i would concider needed in order to be wiccan.

do you see the wiccan rede as being an authority within the wiccan religion? if so, i'd appreciate some insight as to why, as i'm affraid i don't know much at all about the origins of the rede, nor the many versions that have been passed about

[Fluffy]

do you see the wiccan rede as being an authority within the wiccan religion? if so, i'd appreciate some insight as to why, as i'm affraid i don't know much at all about the origins of the rede, nor the many versions that have been passed about

There are 3 distinct entitites that are often known as "The Rede" by Wiccans. Each of these entities has its own variations.

The first is a short moral guideline thats takes the form of a single sentence. I did have an earlier reference when I first researched this but regrettably I cannot find it at the moment. For Aleister Crowley, it was a two part saying: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" which you would then respond to with "Love is the Law, love under Will". And it is in this sort of format that it is seen in Gardner's "Old Laws".

It now gets a bit murky. Both Doreen Valiente and Lady Gwen Thompson have made claims of turning this into the couplet that we know today. In 1964, Valiente used the Rede in the format of "Do what you will, so long as it harms none" (not a direct quotation, this couplet has so many forms I was unable to track down the specific one used and Valiente was likely to vary from writing to writing anyway). However, in 1974, Green Egg magazine published the "Rede of the Wiccae" by Lady Gwen in which the final two lines were "Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, / An it harm none do what ye will."

So now we have two of our distinct entities: a couplet and an entire poem whose last line is that couplet. The problem is that Thompson said that she was given the poem by her grandmother, Adriana Porter, making it at least 100 years old when it is rather obvious that at the very least, the final line seems to have been adapted from Gardner if not Valiente.

A further poem, The Witches Creed by Valiente again, is also often called the Wiccan Rede although it does not bear much resemblance to either of the previous two forms. There areslight comparisons such as the final verse: "
And Do What You Will be the challenge,
So be it in love that harms none,
For this is the only commandment.
By magick of old be it done!"

Now I would be willing to accept the first form as part of the Wiccan "canon". The second form is hotly debated amongst Wiccans and the third was written after Valiente's split with Gardner so neither seem to be necessary.

[Mike182]

thanks fluffy! i need to spread some love before i can frubal you for that

[Gentoo]

Which brings up another point, does the Rede need to be implemented in daily life? I would say that it's up to the individual, myself.

[Khaine]

Well as far implementing the rede into daily life i would say yes.

These Eight words the Rede fulfill:

"An Ye Harm None, Do What Ye Will"

If we take a day off and harm someone, karma and the 3 fold law still make us pay.

But in all, im just offering my opinion.