Wiccan mysteries (tradition, doctrine, advent, scientology, theology)

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by daddy_turk

Do you mean that the other forum members believe that you need to be initiated into a coven to be a true Wiccan or that there just has to be an initiation like a solitaires initiation? Either way, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who actually has the ability to say who is a true Wiccan or pagan with so many variations between traditions. As a whole I would say that the majority of Wiccans do feel the need to be initiated though. Initiation by coven membership purely optional.

Well, that's part of my reason for asking. I've been looking into the different forms of Paganism and it seems that some "traditional Wiccans" believe that in order to be a "true wiccan (tm), you have to be a member of a coven, and initiated and all that. Not because they want to be elitist and special, but because they say there are certain things you just can't learn from books and being a solitary. Supposedly things past through the tradition by the original members of Gardener's group.
I just want to know if that's at all true. I have no group working experience with this at all.

[Lemon]

Originally Posted by daddy_turk

Do you mean that the other forum members believe that you need to be initiated into a coven to be a true Wiccan or that there just has to be an initiation like a solitaires initiation? Either way, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who actually has the ability to say who is a true Wiccan or pagan with so many variations between traditions. As a whole I would say that the majority of Wiccans do feel the need to be initiated though. Initiation by coven membership purely optional.

No, I meant that the other forum members believed that you had to be intiated into a coven with a direct history line to Gardner's coven. The members of that forum are basically the really strict hardcore type of pagans.

[budamus]

no knoledge should be secret, especially religious infomation

[MaddLlama]

I take it that means nobody has an answer?

[Enigmata]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

I take it that means nobody has an answer?

It sure appears that way . I don't think there are any coven members on this forum but it definitely leads me to some interesting questions. This is a great topic you have brought up .

[dragonspring]

I am not in a coven, but I know several people who are. My understanding is that most lineaged covens do have mysteries that are only revealed to the initiated (and sometimes what is revealed is restricted to various degrees).

Having said that, I believe that these mysteries can be discovered in Solitary practice as well. It may take longer and be more difficult to do so.

I would like to point out a couple of things regarding the history of Wicca. Gardner is considered by most Wiccans to be the person that established Wicca as a modern religion. It is almost certain that he did not share the mysteries in his writing. Anyone recieving the mysteries is oath bound not to share same with uninitiated. I personally would not trust anyone claiming that they are publishing mysteries for this very reason. If they would break a solemn oath...

Cunningham did not claim to publish mysteries as such that I am aware of and I have read many of his books. He does point the way for Solitaries to discover those mysteries on their own.

As for Silver Ravenwolf, I have not been able to get past the blatant commercialism to actually read anything she has written. I have read many reviews by Wiccans that do not care for this particular author though.

[MaddLlama]

It just seems funny to me that some traditionalists would insist on this. When I first heard of the mysteries concept I assumed it meant certain personal experiences and such. But, personal experience isn't limited to coven members, so what's the big deal?

[KSojourner]

Originally Posted by dragonspring

As for Silver Ravenwolf, I have not been able to get past the blatant commercialism to actually read anything she has written. I have read many reviews by Wiccans that do not care for this particular author though.

I would agree about the commercialism of Silver Ravenwolf. I have read a couple of her books and was disgusted at how the information was presented. I think the books are rather dumbed down and it was rather insulting.

On the other hand, I do know many people that enjoy her books but would put them in the "beginner" category. The books are said to give basic information in a way that someone new to the path will be able to comprehend.

Two ways to look at it, I guess.

[Enigmata]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

It just seems funny to me that some traditionalists would insist on this. When I first heard of the mysteries concept I assumed it meant certain personal experiences and such. But, personal experience isn't limited to coven members, so what's the big deal?

I would have to agree. Because Wicca is so wide spread and differentiated, one traditions mysteries would not really be valid to another. What good would a Gardinerian mystery do for a person that is a Stregan solitaire? For that matter, I have a pretty good mystery but what good will it do you to know that I do ritual in a blue robe I made myself.

[Enigmata]

Originally Posted by KSojourner

I would agree about the commercialism of Silver Ravenwolf. I have read a couple of her books and was disgusted at how the information was presented. I think the books are rather dumbed down and it was rather insulting.

On the other hand, I do know many people that enjoy her books but would put them in the "beginner" category. The books are said to give basic information in a way that someone new to the path will be able to comprehend.

Two ways to look at it, I guess.

I was always under the impression that they were written with the intent to target a younger audience so it would be understandable if it felt like your intelligence has been insulted when reading a Silver Ravenwolf book. Solitary Witch is the only book that I know of by Silver that is geared toward an older audience. Opinions are bound to vary though.