Spells? (ritual, experience, pagans, pray, God)

[Enigmata]

Originally Posted by Ramacharaka

The main thing differance in "casting spells" as opposed to prayer, and what many think of wicca as opposed to christianity is that wiccian spells seem to be more ego involved as opposed to selfless trancendental prayer. Using physical objects in ritual meditations as "spells" have their place, and although love spells like i have seen in wiccian books like "paste a picture of your loved one on a piece of red paper and put it on a candle alter" usually sounds worthless, visualization of it as a goal may resolve things in the mind in that setting as pointless as the physical ritual may sound... resolving a past relationship by throwing away or even burning your last girlfriend's letters, could be said to have a cleansing effect as a "clearing spell"....I think spells are just goal visualization meditations with physical objects thrown in in ritual.

traditional incense, food and plants seem to have a more valid place i think. Drinking sesame seed butter in gin on the druid festival of lammas (first harvest) is great as there are probably druid priests in your family eating more traditional druid food and using traditional druid plants and ways of life at the same time as you participating in this festival, much similar to "everyone" eating kosher food at passover, bringing the participant closer in to the fold of that tradition.

I am sure that you didn't mean any harm by your post but I can't help but feel that you may be a little misinformed. I question your statement "wiccian spells seem to be more ego involved as opposed to selfless trancendental prayer." Spells and prayer are a reflection of the person who is doing the spell/prayer. You can associate ego or selflessness to prayer or spells. It depends on the person or situation.
In regard to your comments about goal visualization, it would surprise you as to how powerful visualization techniques work when in the presence of your god or gods.

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by Ramacharaka

The main thing differance in "casting spells" as opposed to prayer, and what many think of wicca as opposed to christianity is that wiccian spells seem to be more ego involved as opposed to selfless trancendental prayer.

This reminds me of a Janis Joplin song . . . .

Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?
My friends all drive Porsches, I must make amends.
Worked hard all my lifetime, no help from my friends,
So Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz ?

Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a color TV ?
Dialing For Dollars is trying to find me.
I wait for delivery each day until three,
So oh Lord, won’t you buy me a color TV ?

Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a night on the town ?
I’m counting on you, Lord, please don’t let me down.
Prove that you love me and buy the next round,
Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a night on the town ?

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by turk179

I am sure that you didn't mean any harm by your post but I can't help but feel that you may be a little misinformed. I question your statement "wiccian spells seem to be more ego involved as opposed to selfless trancendental prayer." Spells and prayer are a reflection of the person who is doing the spell/prayer. You can associate ego or selflessness to prayer or spells. It depends on the person or situation.
In regard to your comments about goal visualization, it would surprise you as to how powerful visualization techniques work when in the presence of your god or gods.

indeed, but it does not surporise me that Ramacharaka said that, a common misconception about pagans that pagans believe they hold the power, and it is by their will that magicks work - this is a misconception because pagans cast spells/magicks to present problems to a certain deity, or to divinity in general, for their will be to done, with concideration to us

this is often misunderstood because of the common language used, like "my will be done, an it harm non, so mote it be"

[buttonlady]

They are not like Harry Potter, who can make extraordinary things happen with a simple wave of a wand and a phrase in Latin. Spells are sometimes considered to be similar to prayers, but that's really only a loose comparison. A prayer asks a Deity for assistance, where a spell provides a way for the practitioner to help themselves. A spell is a ritual where the caster can focus their will and intentions, to create a change in their lives. By using stones, herbs and oils, the amount of energy in a spell can be increased. That said, not all Wiccans do much spellwork. While it is an accepted part of our beliefs, spellwork is not really any kind of requirement.

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by Mike182

indeed, but it does not surporise me that Ramacharaka said that, a common misconception about pagans that pagans believe they hold the power, and it is by their will that magicks work - this is a misconception because pagans cast spells/magicks to present problems to a certain deity, or to divinity in general, for their will be to done, with concideration to us

this is often misunderstood because of the common language used, like "my will be done, an it harm non, so mote it be"

Wiccan magik will almost always include a deity, or higher spirit of some sort, and this is no different than Christians praying for guidance from the Saints, or Mother Mary, or Archangels.

And when Moses asked God to part the Red Sea, God told him to do it himself. So by who's 'magik' was the Red Sea parted? Moses' with the guidence of the Source. There is only one Source, but there are many guides, angels, goddesses and there is nothing evil or wrong about casting spells, it is the same thing as prayer.

[buttonlady]

One has to also understand that alot of people think that wiccans cast evil spells. Update your knowledge on this if you too believe this. Wiccans also know that casting evil comes back on them like 7 fold or something. thay arent naturally evil doers as most may believe. Educate yourself

[Feathers in Hair]

Originally Posted by buttonlady

One has to also understand that alot of people think that wiccans cast evil spells. Update your knowledge on this if you too believe this. Wiccans also know that casting evil comes back on them like 7 fold or something. thay arent naturally evil doers as most may believe. Educate yourself

Thankfully, most members or RF are already aware that this isn't the case. Just to clarifiy, too, while Pagans might not be Wiccans, they tend to follow the 'threefold law' as well. (I don't want anyone getting any bad ideas about you guys' rowdy spiritual cousins, hehee!)

Welcome to the forums, Buttonlady!

[buttonlady]

thank you for the welcome. I am new here and I think I will enjoy my time here. I hate how some people have such misconceptions about wiccans and pagans. They automatically think they are totally evil and only wish harm and do illwill. that is just not the case.

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by buttonlady

thank you for the welcome. I am new here and I think I will enjoy my time here. I hate how some people have such misconceptions about wiccans and pagans. They automatically think they are totally evil and only wish harm and do illwill. that is just not the case.

Well, you have found a safe haven. Every once in a while we get some narrow minded individuals come through, but they either don't last long, or awakened to the truth real quick around here.

The only place I know where a Catholic, a Jew, a Muslim, a Pagan, a Druid, a Mormon, and a Satanist can all be in the same room and have civil conversations with each other.

I do not mean to de rail this thread, just wanted to take a moment to brag about how wonderful our little community is.

[buttonlady]

sounds wonderful. Good to know this is not made up of narrow minded misinformed people. Of course there are always the wandering few. Good to be here.