Three fold law. (punishment, choice, Christianity, Christian, verse)

[jeffrey]

To the Wiccans in this forum, what are you views on the 3 fold law. Do you believe in it? I'm in a learning process, so your pros and cons are welcome.

[Evenstar]

So glad to see such help in a forum!

I believe in The 3 Fold Law.

[Fluffy]

I believe that the threefold law is an attempt to advance the idea of karma from a one to one return to a one to many return whilst combining the concept with the rhetorical number in order to explain it more easily.

I don't buy into the actual number 3 and the various ways in which people have tried to explain this. I view it as simply "more than one" but more catchy so an action could result in a 10 time return or a 2 time return (although it is far more likely to not be as exact).

I feel that another fallacy that is often drawn from the threefold law is that if you only do good things, you will only recieve good things. The law is merely (a poor choice of wording perhaps) an expression of the tendancy inherent in human nature and society. If you keep doing bad things, it will come and kick you in the *** eventually.

I think the major trap that a person can fall into regarding the threefold law is regulating their actions so as to avoid bad things and strive for the rewards. What they miss is that constructive and destructive actions rely heavily on the intention that drove them into being. The misguided intention that I outlined above will taint your actions and prevent you from achieving what it is you thought you were trying to achieve. You do not know yourself and in doing so, are divided.

Lastly, I don't like to think of it as a "law" since, to me, this always reminds me of the legal system, especially since it appears to deal out punishments and rewards. It is much more similar to a physical law but this isn't quite it either so I prefer to consider it as a teacher or guide. It makes me consider my motives and intents more closely, both when I screw up and succede and I believe that this is its real intention.

[Evenstar]

Some excellent points to ponder on Fluffy.

[Sunstone]

Could someone refresh my memory of what the threefold law is?

[Fluffy]

The threefold law (or the law of threefold return) is most commonly seen in the form given in the poem "The Rede of The Wiccae" by Lady Gwen Thompson:

"23. Mind the threefold law ye should three times bad and three times good."

which outlines it well but isn't very intuitive if you have never come across it before. Basically the idea is that if you do a bad action, something will happen to you in return that equates to 3 times the "badness" of that action and similarly for good actions. There is a huge amount of controversy on this matter, more specifically on such matters as:
What causes the return?
Whether the law is a law, a rule, a guide etc.
What is the law? Is it a tool of the gods, an inherent fact of the universe etc
What is the intention of the law? Does it mean we should do good and not bad or is it merely telling us that we will recieve bad if we do bad so we must weigh the consequences of our actions? Does it mean that the intentions behind actions are irrelevant or are they taken into consideration?

I have come to conclusions on most of these, as I have outlined in my other post, but these conclusions will differ radically from one Wiccan to the next. I came to my own largely through fusing the law with Christianity.

[Luke Wolf]

One thing I held onto from studing Wicca was the Rule of Three. I find it to be a great rule of thumb to live by.
A simplified version, what you do, be it good or bad, comes back to you three times stronger. It is 2:30 am, so maybe thats why I'm having a hard time following Fluffy's explination.

[KirbyFan101]

Because the words "good" and "bad" are entirely subjective, the threefold law makes little sense unless you manipulate it (as most religions do) to a point where it no longer resembles the original message.

If I kill a man who is about to kill another man, is this a "good" or "bad" thing. And how does the all powerful cosmic universe come to such a conclusion?

[Fluffy]

Because the words "good" and "bad" are entirely subjective, the threefold law makes little sense unless you manipulate it (as most religions do) to a point where it no longer resembles the original message.

I agree. The way I look at it is to break down an action into moral components. The easiest one is harm. It is irrelevant now whether harm is a good or bad thing, if I cause harm, harm will happen to me and vice versa.

[michel]

Originally Posted by KirbyFan101

Because the words "good" and "bad" are entirely subjective, the threefold law makes little sense unless you manipulate it (as most religions do) to a point where it no longer resembles the original message.

If I kill a man who is about to kill another man, is this a "good" or "bad" thing. And how does the all powerful cosmic universe come to such a conclusion?

If I kill a man who is about to kill another man, is this a "good" or "bad" thing.

I remember reading an explanation of the idea of relative morality; and the example hinged exactly around the scenario you have outlined.

The example was that of a Buddhist monk who was travelling in a boat with 8 other people (the figures are immaterial, and I can't remember them, but the principle works just the same). One night, the monk overheard two of his fellow passengers who were talking about how they were going to kill all the passengers later that night, to rob them (obviously that would have included the Monk himself).

The monk decided the only thing he could do was to kill the two thieves, to save 6 lives (excluding his own); the principle being that the death of two thieves was the lesser evil than the killing of seven others, who showed themselves to be ordinary, moral people.