Magick - White, black or neither (Moses, mystic, tradition, mission)

[sapphire]

when it comes to the different types of magic, i would think that magick is neither black or white, its just magic. its up to the practioner to decide of how he/she chooses to use the power.

[Mike182]

Originally Posted by sapphire

when it comes to the different types of magic, i would think that magick is neither black or white, its just magic. its up to the practioner to decide of how he/she chooses to use the power.

i think you're gonna fit right in

[Feathers in Hair]

Hehee, same here!

[nmr_witch]

Going back a few posts, I, too, think of it as dark and light magick, because that allows for the gray moral areas that are all around. (Usually in the sense of if I do this spell or take this course of action to benefit myself or one I care about, is someone going to be harmed, but no one is farsighted enough to know.)

I've been through a rough spot in my life lately, and decided one day to really live the Wiccan rule of three (what you do, comes back to you three times over), you know, really think about not just for spells, rituals and major decisions, but the whole day. Some decisions were really cut and dried, but most of them-- let's just say I didn't last past noon or I would've gone mad.

But even with that experience, I still think using intent only to differentiate magicks doesn't always work. I still think you need to stop and ask before doing a spell or working, who else could this affect and how, going a few steps ahead of immediate results. I don't think the rule of 3 is the Gods and Goddesses' reward or punishment, it's just a natural law, and we're stuck with it.

[EnhancedSpirit]

I agree with too many to quote. Magik is magik. It's the heart of the sender that determines wether it is 'white' or 'dark', positive or negative, or what ever polar label you want to use.

But since we cannot see far enough into the future to see how spells will effect others. So I think the best way to avoid this is to follow the rule of the Charmed ones, do not use your magik for personal gain, the other way is to finish your spells with this "under grace and in the perfect way."

As for the labels of the past, they are just ways that mankind has seperated himself from others. A hard core, devout Christian thinks prayer and hands on healing are ok, but spells and energy work are evil. Prophecy is good, but soothsayers are bad. This does not make sense to me, because they are all the same thing. The same energy is used for all these. The same energy that Jesus used to perform miracles, this was his magik.

[Elvendon]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

As for the labels of the past, they are just ways that mankind has seperated himself from others. A hard core, devout Christian thinks prayer and hands on healing are ok, but spells and energy work are evil. Prophecy is good, but soothsayers are bad. This does not make sense to me, because they are all the same thing. The same energy is used for all these. The same energy that Jesus used to perform miracles, this was his magik.

As far as I'm awhere, the hardcore anti-pagans tend to view it as a case of provenance. Prophecy and divination, miracles and spells, each cause similar effects, but the former come with divine sanction from divine origins while the latter are "stolen" knowledge and abilities, that God never meant for us to follow.

How something is meant to exist without God's prior say-so they never elucidate however Also, did not our Lord say:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." Matt 7:15-20

So, if we can judge prophets by their deeds - surely Wiccans that treat others with love and kindess in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, are more likely to know the Logos (through another name) than some intolerant, racist Baptist who does not practice magick?

[EnhancedSpirit]

Originally Posted by Elvendon

As far as I'm awhere, the hardcore anti-pagans tend to view it as a case of provenance. Prophecy and divination, miracles and spells, each cause similar effects, but the former come with divine sanction from divine origins while the latter are "stolen" knowledge and abilities, that God never meant for us to follow.

How something is meant to exist without God's prior say-so they never elucidate however Also, did not our Lord say:

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them." Matt 7:15-20

So, if we can judge prophets by their deeds - surely Wiccans that treat others with love and kindess in accordance with the teachings of Jesus, are more likely to know the Logos (through another name) than some intolerant, racist Baptist who does not practice magick?

"Our Lord" also said that we would become prophets and healers, and all those things that he did, we also can do, and more.

If God is omnipotent, omniscience, and almighty, and all the other descriptive words that we use, then everything is for God's purpose. And you should indeed take a look at the prophets, many of the people in the bible were guilty of shameless sins. That did not stop them from having a seat in Heaven. If there is only one God, then there is only One Source of Energy. It may be split and separated, and reflected, refracted, or polarized, but the One Source is the One Source.

[Elvendon]

Originally Posted by EnhancedSpirit

"Our Lord" also said that we would become prophets and healers, and all those things that he did, we also can do, and more.

If God is omnipotent, omniscience, and almighty, and all the other descriptive words that we use, then everything is for God's purpose. And you should indeed take a look at the prophets, many of the people in the bible were guilty of shameless sins. That did not stop them from having a seat in Heaven. If there is only one God, then there is only One Source of Energy. It may be split and separated, and reflected, refracted, or polarized, but the One Source is the One Source.

Absolutely I don't ascribe to the polarizations, but I am not here to prevent others from doing so.

Oh, and sorry about the Our Lord thing, I'm just used to referring to Jesus honorifically.

Elvendon