Myth vs Reality (Jesus Christ, rituals, Earth, blood, creation)

[Prima]

Rituals, rites, spells, invocations, devocations, blessings and Magick are all the same thing

Nope! While in daily use the difference isn't very important, when you're practicing Wicca, it is!

These are adapted from dictionary.com:

Ritual: A ceremonial act or a series of such acts.
Rite: The prescribed or customary form for conducting a religious or other solemn ceremony (like a fertility rite. Rites usually have a specific goal in mind)
Spell: A word or formula with magic power. (spells ALWAYS have a very specific goal in mind and use magick in some form)
Magic/Magick: the power itself that we use OR often use of it (I use magick for a spell, I practice magick)
Invocation: the general 'prayer' calling on the Goddess/God and asking for Her/His help and protection
Devocation: the general 'prayer' that says 'thanks!' for what the Goddess/God has helped us out with, and says that we're done
Blessing: This is a little confusing. Blessing is usually a general term for any 'good' asked to be upon a person - can be done with a ritual, rite, or a spell. (Not usually a spell, though.)

[Circle_One]

Originally Posted by kreeden

Magic is many things to different people .

BTW C1 , there are old spells { pre-Wiccan ** that call for human blood or fat . I think that in most cases , the recipes were over dramatic and any blood or fat could have been used { pig's fat was often used ** . But you don't get much blood out of a dead Dove . And yes , I realize that usually a spell doesn't call for much , but I think most would substitute these days . Urban Wiccan perhaps more so ?

* sees a drastic decline in the pigeon populations ... *

Yes, I certainly know this, but thank you for the clarification on this for those who are reading to learn Kreeden

But when I was talking spells, I was merely discussing those used by Wiccans...as there are many spells, even recent ones (non-Wiccan ones) that call for the blood or fat of a living being (be it a human, pig, pigeon, etc.) I just meant that there are spells that Wiccans use that call for the blood of living beings, but because of their 'an it harm none, do what ye will' rule, Wiccans tend to substitute red ink for blood in such cases.

And no of course you don't get much blood out of a dead dove, but regardless of the amount required, Wiccans would choose to substitute as it would go against their beliefs not to. And I don't think it's solely Urban Wiccans who choose to substitute. I would think ALL Wiccans would substitute because if they didn't, they would be going against all they promised to hold dear and the one law they vowed to uphold when they decided to become Wiccan.

So THAT'S what's happened to all those damn pigeons

[Circle_One]

Originally Posted by Prima

For those who are reading to learn, let me explain why C1 and I disagree (at least, why I think we disagree)

I said that it is more 'comfortable' There are two sides to this - physical comfort and spiritual comfort. Physically, it makes me more comfortable to be nude (or skyclad, since you now know what it means) But spiritually, it is very uncomfortable for me. I'm a pretty self-concious person, and it distracts me from what I'm doing (hey, I'm workin on that!)

Also, nude rituals I think are more popular among those who have been practicing the Craft for a relatively long time. Few newer witches are comfortable doing so

But we still don't do them in sight of the neighbors!

Well Prima, at least we agree on why we disagree

And I am extremely in accordance with you on the point of those who have been practicing longer tend to be more open to performing rituals Skyclad. It took me a long time to feel comfortable enough (physically and spiritually) to be able to do it. It was only once I came to feel closer to the Goddess herself that I was finally able to do it Skyclad and of course, no matter who you are, it takes a long time to feel so personally close with the Goddess.

So perhaps we are not disagreeing at all, instead we are looking at it from two different sides. I've been practicing for a long time and have been exposed to Wicca and Paganism for even longer, so I have always been exposed to those who have practiced for many, many years. (Those in my mother's coven for example), and so that is why I would tend to state that I know more people who perform Skyclad. But if even a slight majority of those you know haven't been doing it as long as those I've known, then you would be prone to know a majority of those who wouldn't yet feel comfortable enough to perform Skyclad just yet.

Did that last paragraph just make sense?

[kreeden]

C1 I figured that you knew . Just pointing out that this myth goes back quite a few years .

BTW , wouldn't the Cede apply to being dressed or not too ? I mean , if one is uncomfortable , for whatever reason , wouldn't that be " harm " of sorts ? Just wondering ?

[Circle_One]

Originally Posted by kreeden

C1 I figured that you knew . Just pointing out that this myth goes back quite a few years .

BTW , wouldn't the Cede apply to being dressed or not too ? I mean , if one is uncomfortable , for whatever reason , wouldn't that be " harm " of sorts ? Just wondering ?

Yes, of course it would Kreeden, and that is a great point! Doing something to oneself for whatever reason, that makes you feel uncomfortable about yourself is indeed harming yourself. You are more prone to be self-conscious about yourself when you take part in things that make you feel uncomfortable and the Goddess definitely does not want you to be self-conscious about any aspect of yourself.

That is another reason why performing rituals Skyclad is a sort of to-each-his-own type thing. When I was disagreeing with Prima, I didn't mean to sound (if I did infact sound this way) as if doing things Skyclad was better than doing them dressed. I just meant that, in my opinion, it wasn't as scarcely done as I had taken Prima's post to state.

[kreeden]

Originally Posted by Circle_One

I just meant that, in my opinion, it wasn't as scarcely done as I had taken Prima's post to state.

Yes , I understood that C1 . But I'm not sure if others would , which is why I kinda stuck me nose in there again ...

I do have another question . Is there some point where one can call theirself a Wiccan ? I assume that in most cases it would be when one is accepted into a Coven . But what if there are none around ?

[Circle_One]

Originally Posted by kreeden

Yes , I understood that C1 . But I'm not sure if others would , which is why I kinda stuck me nose in there again ...

Well then, you have my thanks for clarifying my thoughts for the readers of this then. I tend to not realize that others who are reading this may not know or understand it as we do. I am happy to have you to elaborate and clarify my thoughts for the readers when I fail to do so.

I do have another question . Is there some point where one can call theirself a Wiccan ? I assume that in most cases it would be when one is accepted into a Coven . But what if there are none around ?

For both solitary Wiccans and those wishing to join a coven there is an initiation (so to speak) that takes place a year and a day after you first start your studies. I am not Wiccan, so I don't know the exact facts of this initiation, I just know of it from my mother. However, I do know that this initiation ritual can take place with or without a coven. This is the main reason I have trouble with those who pick up a book, say they're Wiccan and immediately start attempting spells. The reason for the initiation taking place a year and a day after one first starts studying is to give the prospective Wiccan the chance to study and learn all they need to know before even attempting the easiest of spells. Magick is a very powerful and dangerous thing and should not be taken lightly nor attempted without the student first studying all they can beforehand.

It bothers me when people pick up a spell book and attempt spells. Not because of the new "trend" or anything but simply because it's dangerous and a lot of these new Wiccans don't seem to realize that and are taking things like spells and rituals way too lightly. It scares me for their own well being.

Just like one should not go into an extremely important test unprepared, one should not delve into the world of Magick unprepared.

Pick up a book kids and read. LEARN it before you try it. </scary warnings>

[kreeden]

I understand what you are saying there C1 . I tend to find that many of those who charge in , not knowing what they are doing , tend to frighten theirselves . Can't list all the stories I've heard about " bad experiences ". So they don't tend to be " Wiccan " for long ...

Thank you for explanation . It makes sense . After all , all Wiccan are priest or priestess and should have an idea of what they are doing .

[fabbers]

In the environment i am in at the moment there have been three bad interpretations of Wicca.
1)That wicca is a brainwashing cult
ok that is just ridiculous. just because there are spells and rituals and something called a book of shadows doesnt mean that Wicca is a cult. in my mind The Church is more of a cult than Wicca.
2)That Wicca is just a womans religion.
that in my mind is almost more ridiculous then wicca being a cult. because of course women can join (all beings are equal) and of course men can join. Wicca DOES NOT discriminate against gender.
3)That Wiccans Worship The Devil (Satan)
that just like the top two are ridiculous. wiccans do not even believe in Satan. Satan is part of the christian pantheon which wiccans dont use much. so that is utterly ridiculous that wiccans worship the devil.
4)that wiccans can conjure demons
someone said to me, after i said that i was wiccan if i could conjure a demon for him. i found this very insulting. i chose to ignore him. but he kept saying and then said he was serious. i obviously knew that he was being silly.


those are only four of the many of the lies being spread agaisnt wiccans. our job is to heal and to teach, not to destroy. we do not harm beings. we are a peaceful kind. we do not mean to destroy christianity like christianity and the church sought out (and still does) to kill wicca and the pagan religions. that is why a simple design like the pentagram


that has been the wiccan symbol since wicca was created was made into the devil sign. that is why the swastika was turned into a sign of evil by hitler. both were non harmful, non evil designs turned evil.