Vedanta and science (Buddhism, reincarnation, followers, translation, evolution)

[Aupmanyav]

There was nothing else in the beginning other than Sri Krishna Parabrahman Purushottam Narayan. Where did the 'jeevas' came from? Therefore, all the 'jeevas' that you percieve are none other than Sri Krishna Parabrahman Purushottam Narayan. You, me, Swami Sahajananda, dogs, pigs, fish, stone, clouds, or any other thing that you name is nothing else but Sri Krishna Parabrahman Purushottam Narayan. That is why He said see everything in me, and me in everything. There is no truth higher than this. That is why Mundaka Upanishad said one who knows this becomes Brahman. One realizes one's own self. It is all so simple. Only who have gone on a wrong road to not find the destination.

[mahesh]

FIRSTLY AT LEAST YOU ACCEPT SHRI KRISHNA AS PARBRAHMAN.

Those who follow a barren philosophy, they cannot answer the questions of this life let alone the afterlife. Your Shushk Vedanti views are small and therefore you are not capable to understand even the basic greatness of Purushottam Narayan. You don’t agree to the Vedas, Gita or purnas with such barren views. You don’t know about Bhagwans abodes, Shaktis nor Bhakts.

"That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world." —Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 15.6

You state is there suffering or is there illusion. Now that is foolish. If you were born handicapped and were tortured by parents and forced to eat mud and spat upon by society and you had nobody to teach you your barren philosophy..all this would be an illusion? What I want an answer to is why is the disabled.. disabled and going through pain etc. You fail to answer my question about why some humans are born disabled. Why some animals are fishes, why some children die at young age, why some starve from hunger, why we have natural disasters, why is there water? Etc. I want to here the other views your faith has on it besides “ it is because you are not seeing Brahman or because you are in illusion”. That’s a barren view. Do you even class yourselves as Hindus? And if so, your Brahman then who is Parbrahman? As Shri Krishna has come and stated Himself that he is Parbrahman with proof. Milk is milk water is water.

You fail to give me an answer. What’s the purpose of creation? What is your purpose? You make me laugh. Its ok for you sitting at your desk to come on here with your drivel. If the Brahman you have understood to be “doesn’t do anything” what purpose does it serve?

Electrons orbiting at 600 kms per second in a stone is the energy of the 5 Mahabhoot. It is true that Purshottam Narayan Parbrahman by his Anvay shakti resides in every animate and non animate matter as well as Jeev, ISwar, Maya abd Brahman through His Shrest, Shreshttar and Shreshtam Shakti.

"The Supreme Lord has nothing to do, and no one is found to be equal to or greater than Him, for everything is done naturally and systematically by His multifarious energies." —Svetashvatara Upanishad 6.8

Becoming Brahmmay means becoming Mukt from the clutches of Maya. This is what the Mundaka Upanishads stat. See you ‘cherry pick’ the Shloks of the scriptures and fit them the way you want them to fit.

Shri Krishna Bhagwan stated “see everything in me, and me in everything” as in this way all actions of a bhakt become nirgun. Free from the three attributes of Maya and Brahmmay. That’s why Shri Krishna stated this to Arjun as well. As Arjun thought that if he killed his relatives in the Bharat war he would attain great sin and it would be very disrespectful. But Shri Krishna told him that if he sees Shri Krishna in all actions and carried out his duties he would be nirgun. Also the bhakt does not differentiate between good and bad and sees all in Shri Krishna and Shri Krishna in all and is forever content.

There are five eternal entities. They always existed and always will. Even at the beginning they were there but just not present at that moment.

"I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him." —Sri Krishna, Bhagavad-gita 9.29

By the way do you render service unto Him in devotion? Are you His friend? Also If you were this very same Shri Krishna then do you envy anyone or are partial? If so why? As you state you are this Shri Krishna. Whereas Shri Krishna states that HE is not partial to anyone nor does He envy anyone.

So then how are you this Shri Krishna? As earlier I saw your post which reeked of being partial as well as envious, one sided, narrow minded, prejudiced, incomplete, unfair, held a grudge, covet etc.

Im not saying im not all them but I don’t claim myself to be Shri Krishna nor a fish lol.

There are hundreds of vakyas of Purshottam Narayan in the scriptures and they ALL fit in with my way of worship and with the philosophy I follow. However, there are hundreds of vakyas and Shlokas of the Sanatan Dharm and Bhagvat Dharmas scriptures which do not fit in with your barren philosophy. Yet you state that it’s the likes of me who are in illusion. HAHA. Truth is its you who has no absolute knowledge. Maybe in your next life you might get some as you have mentioned the names of Purushottam Narayan even.



God bless,

Jay Shri Krishna
Jay Sakaar Bhagwan Purushottam Parbrahman Narayan

[xexon]

How many times can you filet a fish before you can see through the slices?

The mind will carry out this assigned task until you put a stop to it. It needs to stop. There is the danger of distraction off the path to pursue this mental activity of chasing one's tail. Lots of activity, but few results. Its not worth your time.

Do not be too concerned with names and numbers. This is still in the mind's realm. You must escape it's influence like a rocket escaping the earth's gravitational pull.

Only then, will you begin to adjust to the darkness. And only then can you orient yourself towards the light.

There are prescribed methods for attaining this awareness. It is a science, not a faith.

x

[Aupmanyav]

"That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world." Sun, moon, fire, electricity, are all our illusions. The abode of Brahman is neither bright nor dark (Neti, Neti). Those who understand this become Brahman, the world then is an illusion. What will one return to (after the illusions have dissolved)? There is no coming, no going. Brahman is always there constituting everything.

"If you were born handicapped and were tortured by parents and forced to eat mud and spat upon by society" The notion of suffering is that person's illusion, and to put such a person to extra pain is the torturer's illusion. A realized person would not think or act like that. He would understand that what he percieves also is Brahman. That is why Sankaracharya fell at the feet of the Chandala. That one is a man, that one is a woman, that one is handicapped, that there is a fish, that there is a dog, are all our illusions. What is there is just Brahman, the substrate, an energy.

I have already mentioned, creation is our illusion. Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed. Whatever we percieve as happening in the world is not really happening. It is like Balarama's dream. This is Maya. What is really happening is a play of atoms, or, if you go even deeper, it is only a disturbance in quantum mesh that pervades and constitutes the whole universe.

There is no purpose in the world. The illusions create their own purpose. One starts preaching to people, the other starts killing people. Some are mad after sex, some are mad after money, some are mad after fame, some are mad after power. Brahman is not involved in all this. At the end of their lives, all illusions fare the same way, they disappear into Brahman. You keep dividing things, ajeeva, jeeva, Ishwar, Brahman and what not, shreshtha, shreshthatar, and shreshthatam. There are really no differences. It is always shreshthatam, because all have their origin in Brahman. You have a bheda-drishti, that is not what Sri Krishna advised. He said the knowledgeable see all things as same (vidya-vinaya-sampanne, brahmane gavi hastini; suni chaiva sva-pake cha, panditah sama-darsinah, Geeta 5.18).

Dear friend, you are so deep into ignorance that it will not be in my power to take you out from there. Only Sri Krishna's grace can save you.

Jai Sri Krishna, Saakaar or Niraakaar, it is all the same. Even Sri Krishna is for those who are under illusion. The reality is Brahman.

[mahesh]

Originally Posted by xexon

How many times can you filet a fish before you can see through the slices?

The mind will carry out this assigned task until you put a stop to it. It needs to stop. There is the danger of distraction off the path to pursue this mental activity of chasing one's tail. Lots of activity, but few results. Its not worth your time.

Do not be too concerned with names and numbers. This is still in the mind's realm. You must escape it's influence like a rocket escaping the earth's gravitational pull.

Only then, will you begin to adjust to the darkness. And only then can you orient yourself towards the light.

There are prescribed methods for attaining this awareness. It is a science, not a faith.

x

Firstly i dont eat filet o fish so i wouldnt know.

Secondly what i follow is a faith. My Darkness has disappeared due to the light shone on my inteligence by guru.

[mahesh]

Originally Posted by Aupmanyav

"That supreme abode of Mine is not illumined by the sun or moon, nor by fire or electricity. Those who reach it never return to this material world." Sun, moon, fire, electricity, are all our illusions. The abode of Brahman is neither bright nor dark (Neti, Neti). Those who understand this become Brahman, the world then is an illusion. What will one return to (after the illusions have dissolved)? There is no coming, no going. Brahman is always there constituting everything.

"If you were born handicapped and were tortured by parents and forced to eat mud and spat upon by society" The notion of suffering is that person's illusion, and to put such a person to extra pain is the torturer's illusion. A realized person would not think or act like that. He would understand that what he percieves also is Brahman. That is why Sankaracharya fell at the feet of the Chandala. That one is a man, that one is a woman, that one is handicapped, that there is a fish, that there is a dog, are all our illusions. What is there is just Brahman, the substrate, an energy.

I have already mentioned, creation is our illusion. Nothing is created, nothing is destroyed. Whatever we percieve as happening in the world is not really happening. It is like Balarama's dream. This is Maya. What is really happening is a play of atoms, or, if you go even deeper, it is only a disturbance in quantum mesh that pervades and constitutes the whole universe.

There is no purpose in the world. The illusions create their own purpose. One starts preaching to people, the other starts killing people. Some are mad after sex, some are mad after money, some are mad after fame, some are mad after power. Brahman is not involved in all this. At the end of their lives, all illusions fare the same way, they disappear into Brahman. You keep dividing things, ajeeva, jeeva, Ishwar, Brahman and what not, shreshtha, shreshthatar, and shreshthatam. There are really no differences. It is always shreshthatam, because all have their origin in Brahman. You have a bheda-drishti, that is not what Sri Krishna advised. He said the knowledgeable see all things as same (vidya-vinaya-sampanne, brahmane gavi hastini; suni chaiva sva-pake cha, panditah sama-darsinah, Geeta 5.18).

Dear friend, you are so deep into ignorance that it will not be in my power to take you out from there. Only Sri Krishna's grace can save you.

Jai Sri Krishna, Saakaar or Niraakaar, it is all the same. Even Sri Krishna is for those who are under illusion. The reality is Brahman.

Neti Neti means not this not this. Meaning that the scriptures cannot describe the greatness of Purshottam Narayan. Sun, moon etc are not illusions. They exist but when there time comes (parlay) they are destroyed. But not their respective deities.

Pain is not an illusion. It exists. The soul gets pain through the senses of the body because of its Karma. That is the answer. The answer of the Purans and Vedas make more sense than your barren answer. As why does illusion want to inflict pain othewise? What purpose does this serve? Shankar Acharaya fell at the feet of a chandaal because He knew that Govinda lives within this man as Sakshi as well. Bhaj Govindam Bhaj Govindam bhaj Govindam Moodhmahte.

Millions of universes are created and destroyed. According to you what purpose does what we perceive serve? Why do we see such an illusion? Why do we then have to go through this? You do not answer this question of mine. You state universe so you believe in a universe. You also state Maya so you believe in Maya. So why does such a Maya take birth or even exist? What is its purpose? You fail to answer this. Why are we in illusion like you say we are?

If there is no purpose then what is our aim? Why does the Brahman you describe to be serve no purpose? Also if there is no purpose and no Karma then according to you it’s justifiable to commit murder, rape, steal etc? There should be no punishment? Am I right? The Upanishads talk about the Shaktis of God just as Shrest, Shreshttar and Shreshtam. So they cannot be wrong. I would rather learn from them instead of you.


You have Avidhya and no absolute knowledge therefore you state what you do. Maya blinds you from doing what’s right for the soul. You will realise when you leave your body.
By the way the Adhyay 5.18 talks of all the various species of life in which the embodied atma or soul resides in. The variegated appearances of different species of life are due to prakriti or material nature not the atma. The compound word sama-darsinah meaning equal vision is how those in atma tattva or soul realisation regard all the atmas residing in unlimited bodies as being equal due to the atmas essential nature of being eternal and of being an infinitesimal part of the Supreme Lord Krishna who is Parbrahm.
You ‘cherry pick’ what you think may fit in with your philosophy and then you do anarth of arth. You are so deep in your way of thinking that it is beyond me to teach you otherwise. Hopefully Bhagwan puts you back on track before your life ends. Maybe He will show you one day which will make you realise for the rest of your days.
I pray to the Almighty Shri Krishna to do such. God bless.
Jay Swaminarayan
Jay Shri Krishna
Jay Sakaar Murti Purushottam Parbrahm Narayan who is the cause of Brahm worshipped by it and beyond it.

[Aupmanyav]

When Pralaya comes, even the devas get dissolved in Brahman. That is what 'pralaya' means (laya - dissolving). There is no soul, and Brahman is not affected by pain. It is our illusion. Karma is important for the society, and for this life. After death, my atoms go to a million things, what will Karma attach to?

If you understand why Sankaracharya fell at the feet of the Chandala, then worship (because that is your way) the same in me. I bow to the Brahman in you and in Swami Sahajananda also.
Only Brahman exists, 'Ekameva Adviteeyam'. Govinda is both, the sakshi and the saksha. There is none other.

As I have already mentioned, Brahman has no purpose, no desire, it does not change, it does not create, it does not destroy. It is our own faulty perception which makes us think so. You do not have to go through this if you realize the truth.

Why we percieve the illusion is because of the limitations of our perception. We can see things at our scale. The microscopic world is too small for us though there is so much happening there. The macroscopic world is too large for us. We keep on finding new galaxies at the borders of the universe with more powerful telescopes which keep on extending all the time.

We can see only a small portion of the total spectrum of light, we can hear only a small portion of the spectrum of sound. Our mental facilities are also not able to understand the many dimensions of the universe. At the time we know only four, three coordinates and time; while science is talking about the possibility of eleven dimensions.

Since we have come to this earth as humans in a society, our purpose is that of the humans, that is to live a peaceful life in harmony with society and nature. The human society would not have survived if it was always murdering, raping, or stealing. It would have been extinct by now, not that it makes any difference to Brahman.

Humans have come to the world just about 1.5 lac years ago. Before that there were no humans for the rest of 4.5 billion years. The earth may still last for many more billion years, but it is not necessary that humans would always be there. Brahman does not care for individual species. They arise and disappear every day. The dinosours are no more, the woolly mammoths are extinct, and the sabre-toothed tiger has made its last kill. Ask your grandson or Penguin and other young people about them. Perhaps you do not know.

[mahesh]

When Pralay comes the Universe merges with Mahatatva, Mahatatva merges unto Pradhan, Pradhan merges unto Prakruti Purush and prakruti Purush merges unto the supreme abode of Parbrahm Purushottam. The Jivas that have not got liberated merge into the womb of Maha Maya. This includes any Devas he have not been liberated. Brahm isn’t affected by pain but the Jiva is through the body and its senses according to the past Karmas. Karma attaches to you soul.

Govinda is the Karan and all that you see is the Karya. He is Parbrahm but your intelligence doesn’t let you see this. If there is no purpose for Brahman then why has all this happened? What’s the point of this so called illusion? Why does Brahman carry all this out?

We keep on finding new galaxies at the borders of the universe with more powerful telescopes which keep on extending all the time because this Brahmand (universe) is big. We can only see Mrutyulok and even then we cant go to the ends of it. That’s one Loka of 14 Lokas. So that’s more than 11 which Science talks of.


If Brahman isn’t affected then what does peaceful living in harmony with society serve? If one feels peace in raping and looting then he would have no trouble in going about to serve himself right? As according to you there is no karma. So its fine to hurt, kill, loot, rape etc. By the way, why should it matter if “we have come as humans” ? As a human according to you is Brahman, No maya, Parbrahm or Karma affects it so why does it serve a purpose? Why is it necessary for the human society to survive anyway if all is Brahman? If it doesn’t make a difference why do you mention it? So back to my question.. If there is no purpose then what is our aim? Why does the Brahman you describe to be serve no purpose? Also if there is no purpose and no Karma then according to you it’s justifiable to commit murder, rape, steal etc?

According to you what purpose does what we perceive serve? Why do we see such an illusion? Why do we then have to go through this? You do not answer this question of mine. You state universe so you believe in a universe. You also state Maya so you believe in Maya. So why does such a Maya take birth or even exist? What is its purpose? You fail to answer this. Why are we in illusion like you say we are?

Humans have been in this Brahmand for at least 155 trillion and 20 billion years. Many Mahakalps and Manvantars have passed. Here are 8.4 million species of life. There was Rakshas Jaati few ugas ago and they also do not exist. But what does that prove? As becoming extinct doesn’t mean that jivas are destroyed. What are you trying to state?

[Aupmanyav]

Your theory is too contorted for me. 'When Pralay comes the Universe merges with Mahatatva, Mahatatva merges unto Pradhan, Pradhan merges unto Prakruti Purush and prakruti Purush merges unto the supreme abode of Parbrahm Purushottam'.

I would not trade it with my theory. Death - the body merges with the substrate, Brahman. Pralaya - when all things merge at the same time into Brahman. Science calls it the big-crunch, as opposed to the big-bang which started the universe. Some day science will realize that it is not so in reality. All this is illusion (Ma - not, ya - this).

Govinda is the karan, but there is no Karya. Just his existence is enough. That we see Karya is our illusion. What you think to be happening is not happening at all. Brahman does not do anything. What point an illusion can have? Naturally, it is pointless. Is there anything other than play of atoms, a disturbance in the universal quantum mesh? One day, humans will also disappear from the face of earth, Brahman will be manifested to the perciever in other forms.

I anticipate your question, if there are no humans, who would percieve? That is a wrong question. For the major part of the earth's history, there were no humans. Who percieved? The animals percieved. They also have perception, though it is different from human perception. But then, Brahman is not concerned with it being percieved or not. The illusion of universe is 14.5 billion years old, earth illusion came 4.5 billion years ago. Who percieved the universe for 10 billion years, probably none.

Mrutyuloka is a wrong term. The earth is Jeevan-loka as well as Mrutyu-loka for us. We do not know of any other. Living peacefully is not for Brahman. It would be least concerned if every one of the six billion humans break each other head. It is for us. Rest later, have to close the computer because of my grandson.