Who is Christian?

[EverChanging]

I thought this might make an interesting discussion for Unitarian Universalists.

I recently changed the status of my religion on these forums from Atheist/Humanist to HUUmanist Neopagan Eclectic Atheist, and I did this for certain reasons. While I am a Humanist in the modern sense of the term, it is a philosophy, and not an entire worldview, nor does it encompass my spirituality. For three years (probably longer, but especially over the last three years) I have learned much and have experimented with different spiritual practices and have found myself with a very unique worldview and spirituality. In an attempt to convey that more effectively, I changed my religious status to reflect my Humanism along with the fact that I observe neo-pagan Sabbats, occasionally use spells for the psychological effect, pray, meditate, and engage in other rituals. I've also had mystical/spiritual experiences since childhood and my teen years.

Still, the terms I've thrown together to convey this are not perfect, and I don't plan on adding more terms -- there is no way a few terms could express my spirituality. The word "atheist" isn't perfect, either. I am an athest in regard to supernatural gods, yet I've had subjective experiences of what I could refer to as the "divine." I merely don't subscribe to the view that it is external or in any way supernatural, but exists in the same sense as beauty, or a scent.

Another interesting thing about my spirituality is the Christian influences on it -- I use some Christian prayers and rituals, and much of my worship at my altar and the decorations on my altar is infused with Christianity, especially mystical Christianity. Some other neo-pagans have told me I qualify as a "Christopagan." The lines between Christianity and paganism are blurred as far as I am concerned because there has been so much intermingling of the two, even in the Bible itself.

And that brings me to the definition of Christianity. Many Unitarian Universalists do not consider themselves Christians because they cannot faithfully recite the Nicene Creed or the Apostles Creed. They cannot affirm the trinity, or the miracles of Jesus, or the literal resurrection, but neither could most Unitarian and Universalist Christians in the past or even today.

So what is it that makes someone a Christian? Is it the doctrines they profess? Or their rituals? Must Christ be the center of their spirituality? And what about myself? The Christ plays a role in my spirituality, but the Christ (which I do not assign a gender) is interchangable with the divine to me and beyond any particular person, even Jesus. In some of my prayers, Mary is the female Christ -- while Catholicism rejects that position, in many ways it has made Mary Christ's equivalent: co-redeemer, mediatrix, Queen of Heaven and Earth, the mother of Christians (there is an ancient Christian tradition, rarely mentioned today, of "Mother Christ," which I find very beautiful.) So while the historical Jesus is not the center of my spirituality, he does play a role in my personal mythological view of the world. Would that make me Christian? And if it does, wouldn't that make Muslims Christians, too?

I think the problem here is that religions have become so intertwined that it can be hard to distinguish where one begins and another ends. I'll give an example. It is not only the Roman Catholic Church that claims to be truly Catholic, but others as well: for instance, the Orthodox, and the Anglicans. They all have different qualifications for Catholicism. But Protestants claim to be catholic in a different sense. Anglicans, while claiming to be Catholic, have been influenced deeply by Protestantism, but the Roman Catholic Church, since Vatican Two, has implemented most of the reforms that sparked the Protestant Reformation. Does that make them partly Protestant, too, in a sense? And other Christian denominations partly Catholic (especially since the mainstream ones profess the same creeds?)

Similar problems can be confronted when trying to define Christianity itself, especially concerning Mormonism, Christopaganism, and other heretical forms of Christianity, such as Unitarianism and Universalism.

So what are your thoughts? What makes a person a Christian? If you are a UU Christian, what is it about you that makes you a Christian as opposed to some other religion?

[John D]

A Man can create any relgion he wants, all he needs to do is make a list of his needs and wishes- add a few spices (rituals and symbols), the hardest part is naming you deity and choosing the name of you new religion.
Man has the choice to do this.
But it won't last!
Why???
This way you can only satisfy two of the three needs of spirituality.
Need 1 - The need for religious rituals - Body
Need 2 - The need for logical input(occult or hidden)- Symbols - Mind or soul
Need 3 - Need for spiritual worship/Communion - Experiencing God - Spirit.

Need 3 - lies outside the reach of man and can only be received by man if it is handed to him by God.

So the search never ends - man's hunger cannot be stilled.

[EverChanging]

A Man can create any relgion he wants, all he needs to do is make a list of his needs and wishes- add a few spices (rituals and symbols), the hardest part is naming you deity and choosing the name of you new religion.
Man has the choice to do this.
But it won't last!
Why???
This way you can only satisfy two of the three needs of spirituality.
Need 1 - The need for religious rituals - Body
Need 2 - The need for logical input(occult or hidden)- Symbols - Mind or soul
Need 3 - Need for spiritual worship/Communion - Experiencing God - Spirit.

Need 3 - lies outside the reach of man and can only be received by man if it is handed to him by God.

So the search never ends - man's hunger cannot be stilled.

No offense, but your post is totally and utterly irrelevant to the question I asked.

[Storm]

Originally Posted by John D

A Man can create any relgion he wants, all he needs to do is make a list of his needs and wishes- add a few spices (rituals and symbols), the hardest part is naming you deity and choosing the name of you new religion.
Man has the choice to do this.
But it won't last!
Why???
This way you can only satisfy two of the three needs of spirituality.
Need 1 - The need for religious rituals - Body
Need 2 - The need for logical input(occult or hidden)- Symbols - Mind or soul
Need 3 - Need for spiritual worship/Communion - Experiencing God - Spirit.

Need 3 - lies outside the reach of man and can only be received by man if it is handed to him by God.

So the search never ends - man's hunger cannot be stilled.

Originally Posted by EverChanging

No offense, but your post is totally and utterly irrelevant to the question I asked.

Not to mention, this is the UU DIR.

[Terrywoodenpic]

Originally Posted by EverChanging

Similar problems can be confronted when trying to define Christianity itself, especially concerning Mormonism, Christopaganism, and other heretical forms of Christianity, such as Unitarianism and Universalism.

So what are your thoughts? What makes a person a Christian? If you are a UU Christian, what is it about you that makes you a Christian as opposed to some other religion?

Most Trinitarian Churches, if not all, deny that non trinitarians are Christian. Many sects deny the faith of all Christian churches other than their own.

Any Church is quite able and justified in deciding who can be a member of their church... purely based on what that church believes.

Personally, I understand "Christian" as meaning one who follows the Teachings and commandments of Jesus as found in the Gospels.

I believe that the LDS and the precursor of the UU's, "The Unitarians", are Christian. Though of course neither are trinitarian. Most UU's would not claim to be Christian.

I strongly follow the position of the "Non subscribing Presbytarians" who are associated with and are an early form of "Unitarian."

[applewuud]

What makes a person a Christian? If you are a UU Christian, what is it about you that makes you a Christian as opposed to some other religion?

I would say that you are a Christian if your understanding and practice of spirituality is predominantly shaped by the life story and preaching of Jesus of Nazareth, and the historical movement that was formed by his followers throughout the past two millenia. That doesn't necessarily mean you believe the Nicene Creed, or that Rabbi Jesus was part of the godhead, or even that he rose from the dead. It means that the stories and parables in the Christian tradition (not only in the bible but in the traditions and interpretations of orthodox and unorthodox people through time, saints and sinners and commentators and preachers) hold a meaning for you. As a UU, you've explored and are open to other traditions, but find that your core understandings are more in concert with Christian tradition than with Jewish, Zoroastrian, Muslim, Buddist, or Hindu traditions.

I tend to agree with the Dalai Lama that if we were born into any particular culture and have learned about it for decades, that it's most productive for us to explore the tradition we're most familiar with, rather than being dilettantes of some culture and theology foreign to us. That doesn't mean a UU Christian isn't open to other ideas, it just means they're most aware of the light that shines through that particular stained glass window.

[EverChanging]

Thanks for your perspectives. My fellow UUs usually give me plenty to think about.

[no-body]

Originally Posted by applewuud

I would say that you are a Christian if your understanding and practice of spirituality is predominantly shaped by the life story and preaching of Jesus of Nazareth, and the historical movement that was formed by his followers throughout the past two millenia.

There are even Christian Atheists apparently, I get a lot out of Jesus teachings but I don't think I'd call myself a Christian, even a UU one. I've wrestled with the same question the OP has... anyways it's not like labels are relevant anyways.

[EverChanging]

There are even Christian Atheists apparently, I get a lot out of Jesus teachings but I don't think I'd call myself a Christian, even a UU one. I've wrestled with the same question the OP has... anyways it's not like labels are relevant anyways.

Agreed. I find them very inadequate.

[uu_sage]

A Christian to me is anyone who follows in the spirit, example, and teachings of Jesus.
I am a Christian because I want to show the world that there is a liberal, prophetic and inclusive Christian voice.
I am a Christian because I refuse to concede the Bible, Jesus, Christianity, God or the title Christian to the religious right.
I am a Christian because out of God's inclusive love and grace, we are called to realize the Kingdom of God in our midst- the reign of justice, inclusion, love, mercy and compassion.
I am a Christian UU because I want to show that there are still Christian Universalists and Christian Unitarians, and Christian UU churches present in the UUA.
I am a Christian because I wanna embody the religion of Jesus rather than the religion about him.
I am a Christian because I wanna spread the gospel of God's radical love and grace and of Jesus's scandalous acts of inclusion and compassion.
I am a Christian because all of us are the beloved children of God and we are our sisters and brothers keeper.
I am a Christian because the teachings of Jesus still speak to our present condition and is a message of great comfort, and yet a controversial and revolutionary one.
I am a Christian because Jesus called us to be servants and to reach out to those he called the "least among us".
I am a Christian because while Christianity is my path to God, I recognize the myriad of other paths to God. Out of this affirmation I study the world's other religions, to see the commonalities of all faiths and how God is moving in all religions for the greater good of the human family.