Inherent worth for everyone? (evolve, faith, divine)

[Kungfuzed]

Originally Posted by lilithu

No confusion. We're talking inherent worth. Yes, it is in everyone, including those you would consider your "enemies." Do you actually have "enemies?"

Not exactly. Maybe adversary is a better word, people who make my life more difficult or stand in the way of my progression. I got a letter from my insurance company telling me I'm likely to be sued by the people I ran into back in January. I don't have any details yet, but I'm still really stressing about it.

Originally Posted by lilithu

Or you do not believe in theirs.

I don't believe in theirs as much as I believe in my own or my family's worth, but maybe I'm confusing worth with love. Is there a difference?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

Not exactly. Maybe adversary is a better word, people who make my life more difficult or stand in the way of my progression. I got a letter from my insurance company telling me I'm likely to be sued by the people I ran into back in January. I don't have any details yet, but I'm still really stressing about it.

I am sorry that you're going thru this stressful situation. I didn't know you were in an accident. Aside from the legal stress, are you ok?

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

I don't believe in theirs as much as I believe in my own or my family's worth, but maybe I'm confusing worth with love. Is there a difference?

Ultimately no. Recognizing everyone's inherent worth is "love thy neighbor as you love yourself." Agape. Interdependency means that there is no real distinction between you and your family and the stranger. But "love thy neighbor" doesn't mean you are a doormat. You can still get angry when the situation warrants you to be angry, and stick up for yourself. It just means that no matter how frustrating other people can be, you always have to keep in mind that they are people, just like you, with their own histories that have led them to where they are now.

And remember, we're talking about ideals here. UUs are just as bad at living up to their ideals as anyone else. But still, this is one of the ideals that we lift up, by which we take spiritual stock of ourselves.

[UltraViolet]

Originally Posted by Heneni

I have come to the realisation, that as long as I dont percieve anyone as my enemy I am free.

Whoever you percieve to be your enemy becomes a possible controlling factor in your life.

If a percieved enemy says something degrading it sets of a roller coaster of emotions that make you act in a way that gives expression to the stirring in your blood. Even if you control the outburst that such feelings might cause, it still means that those feelings were stirred within, and as such the other person has gained control of your inner centre of peace.

That in itself means the other person has gained control over your emotions and feelings, and so it is best to not percieve anyone as an enemy since it could mean they end up controlling your inner man. And any desire to be set free from such a percieved enemy is impossible as long as they have control over your emotions and feelings.

Love
heneni

I personally see it as far more pragmatic to recognize one's enemies/adversaries for who they are,
so as to be able to steer clear of their troublemaking
or overcome a situational blockade they have put in your path.

It is quite possible to "thwart" or "walk on thru" a recognized adversary
without ever getting emotional about it.

No more do I want anyone "controling" my inner woman...
than the personal expression of my outer world.

You can even love an adversary and still beat the crap out of their control game.
Wisdom and sensitivity to each unique situation is key.

It must however be done from a state of calm collectedness.
You cannot be the victom AND the victor.

[UltraViolet]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Recognizing everyone's inherent worth is "love thy neighbor as you love yourself." Agape. Interdependency means that there is no real distinction between you and your family and the stranger. But "love thy neighbor" doesn't mean you are a doormat. You can still get angry when the situation warrants you to be angry, and stick up for yourself. It just means that no matter how frustrating other people can be, you always have to keep in mind that they are people, just like you, with their own histories that have led them to where they are now.

I have a few thoughts about "loving your neighbor as yourself"...

First off it does no good to love your neighbor as yourself,
if you do not first love yourself.

Now if you DO in fact love yourself with integrity, honesty and freedom
then "do unto your neighbor as you would have them do unto you"
actually does work.

for example...
If I were overstepping my boundaries with another
I would WANT them to put a stop to it.
And so I would do myself to anyone overstepping their boundaries with me.

Also I would say that I most definately am distinct from my family,
and my family is distinct from my neighbors...
and my friends who love and respect me
are distinct from my neighbors who don't.

Every individual is distinctly who they are...
and they each have a distinct role in my life (or not).
All roles IN MY STORY are not equal.
My irrational neighbor is the STAR player in her own story after all.
I prefer she not make cameo appearances in mine.
I currently have no room for disruptive extras.

(this of course is not a judgement of her inherent worth...
just a judgement that her brand of troublmaking is not worth my time and effort.
And I will not "sponsor" it.)

[Kungfuzed]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I am sorry that you're going thru this stressful situation. I didn't know you were in an accident. Aside from the legal stress, are you ok?

Physically I'm fine. I've had alot of stress lately. They're starting to lay off people here at work. My school almost denied me to get into clinical courses because of a paperwork oversight. And now this letter from the insurance company. I've decided I need to go to church. I need a support group. I need to make some friends. I have no life whatsoever outside of work and school and this forum. I've talked about it with my wife and we're going to go visit the Unitarian Universalist church up in Wilmington this Sunday. It's been long overdue.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

Physically I'm fine. I've had alot of stress lately. They're starting to lay off people here at work. My school almost denied me to get into clinical courses because of a paperwork oversight. And now this letter from the insurance company. I've decided I need to go to church. I need a support group. I need to make some friends. I have no life whatsoever outside of work and school and this forum. I've talked about it with my wife and we're going to go visit the Unitarian Universalist church up in Wilmington this Sunday. It's been long overdue.

Please let me know how it goes, and I do hope your stresses subside soon.

[Rolling_Stone]

There was once a king whose mood would swing from great elation to to great depair. He gathered his wise men together and asked them for help. The next day, they gave the king a ring and told him that when he found himself in one of his moods, he should turn it over and read what it says. For written on both sides of the ring were these few words: This, too, shall pass.

[Kungfuzed]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Please let me know how it goes, and I do hope your stresses subside soon.

My wife and I went to church this morning. The minister had just gotten back from sabbatical where she had gone to Israel and the West Bank and gave a good sermon about it. I think she has a good understanding of the situation over there. Afterwards I took some pamphlets and drank some coffee and got to meet a few of the people there. One thing i didn't expect was that the vast majority of the members there are elderly. I didn't see anyone there my age, but that might not even matter. I'm not there to play basketball.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

My wife and I went to church this morning. The minister had just gotten back from sabbatical where she had gone to Israel and the West Bank and gave a good sermon about it. I think she has a good understanding of the situation over there. Afterwards I took some pamphlets and drank some coffee and got to meet a few of the people there. One thing i didn't expect was that the vast majority of the members there are elderly. I didn't see anyone there my age, but that might not even matter. I'm not there to play basketball.

Thanks for letting me know how it went.

UU congregations vary so much that I didn't know what to expect for you any more than you did. It is not uncommon for smaller congregations to be mostly older. These are usually people who joined in the 60s/70s at the height of liberalism, and when society got substantially more conservative, UU congregations shrank, unable to attract a generation of younger, more conservative members. That's turning around tho. Congregations that have good religious education programs for kids also tend to attract more 20 and 30 somethings.

Just out of curiosity (and a little concern), were they nice to you? Did they greet you and make you feel welcome?