Why aren't there more Unitarian Universalists? (ritual, reject, contradiction, beliefs)

[Rex]

Originally Posted by UNITED

I'm new to the forums and to the church. I am a 16 year old African American male living in Baker, Louisiana, who has been attending the Unitarian Universalist Church in Baton Rouge for nearly 2 months. I kind of get the church. It is a good place to go to, to learn. Well, before arriving in May I was thinkin of being an atheist as i kind of believe in the Big Bang Theory, but my Health teacher told me about the place and said I would like it. I kind of do, because I'm kind of soul searching. That does sound strange for 16, but I am. I'm still new, I will take the classes i August to formally join. I'm like the only Black kid in the whole church, not to mention the Adult sessions :talk:

A fellow louisiana native.. HI :hi: I live in Baton Rouge for a couple years. Now in Lafayette.


Sorry to butt in on the convo.. hehe

[UNITED]

Well, about the teenagers at the Church. For some reaon I feel better hanging with the adults and learning from them. The young teens are 10 -14, while the young adults are absent I believe til August. I plan to go through the Roots program to join. I mean I've been going for 7 Sundays and feel like I should join. The people there are so nice and outgoing . Really liberal. My teacher at my school plans to go through Root with me.

[Runt]

Awesome. I'd go for it. And I agree; sometimes hanging out with the adults is much more... I don't know, fulfilling, I guess. However, I have noticed that the conversation with the college age group is much more akin to what we get on this board... lively, fast paced, intellegent debate and general intellectual discourse. Adults are more mellow.

[Gorilla]

Hi Runty - where did you get the blurb on evil existing? That one makes me a bit uneasy. I personally don't believe in the concept of evil, sin, or hell. I know my mom does somewhat. We're both Unitarians. And the bilaws are always changing at GA and the principles were voted on etc etc, so maybe it's something I haven't seen yet or personally would want to change. It's an interesting statement for the UUA to put out though considering Universalism defines a rejection of hell (which I directly associate with the term evil).

I think one reason more people don't know about UUism is b/c we don't have a traditional calling to "spread the Gospel". I've always thought this was a good thing about UUism that comes right out of respecting other peoples faiths and what they choose to believe. I'm not going to go try to get strangers to be UU's because if they're happy being Hindu or Nondenominational Christian then I certainly respect their choice to practice that faith. When a group of people by definition respect everyone's personal search for truth the necessity to spread your own beliefs to as many as you can tends to go out the window. I don't think UU's will every cease growing because we're preaching some good stuff, but I like the fact that we're not bombarding people with what we believe.

[Gorilla]

ps. Apparently I'm not sure how this works yet, b/c I meant to post my reply in the folder where somebody asked why aren't there more UU's.....can I still do that?

[Gorilla]

"In fact, very few UUs believe in a continuing, individualized existence after physical death. Even fewer believe in the physical existence of places called heaven or hell where one goes after dying. We believe immortality manifests itself in the lives of those we affect during our lifetime and in the legacy we leave when we die. "


Maize - I think the last statement is true because it is more philisophical, but you've got to be careful about statements that indicate most UU's believe this or that.I've made blanket statements about specific beliefs before and found two things, a-they usually turn out to be untrue and b-they can sometimes turn ppl off to our faith. I would say there are a great deal of UU's who either do believe in some sort of heaven or existence after death or are toying with the idea. There are still some UU churches that read out of the Bible and there are a lot of members like my mom who come from strong Christian or Jewish faiths. Some people come from faiths where they can't fully embrace them because they differ from some of the views proposed, but they still hold firmly to their interpretation of the faith. The idea of an afterlife is as valid as the idea of the absense thereof and if you are introducing someone to UUism you should always try to avoid making specific religious classifications like saying most don't believe in an afterlife. There are deists and atheists in our church, always make sure you leave room for both =).
--
"Another key issue--a religion/philosophy may help one live in this life. As we all are curious and have thought about an afterlife, regardless to which religion (or anti-religion) we subscribe, a religion which is not authoritative about that afterlife leaves this unending curiousity unsatisfied.

Does UU address this issue in any authoritative way?"

Question for quick: Do you think an authoritative church fully extinguishes someone's fears about the afterlife? Do you think a person can ever be completely certain of the afterlife, do you think the Pope has never faced any personal doubts about Catholicism? <- that's the biggest example I can think of, could be any person attending an "authoritative church"...

What is your opinion on living a life that is fully for the now? Do you think dedicating your life to helping other people can make your life worthwhile enough to live if the promise of heaven turned out to be untrue? Can your service to others create enough purpose for you to feel satisfied knowing your only time is now?

[Gorilla]

Helios -
First question, is your dad a dentist? Second question, suppose we know there are two kinds of people:

Type one: Doesn't believe in an afterlife. Has feelings of fear about death and inquires the unending question "What is the point of this?" When loved ones die has nothing but a sense of loss to cope with and the memory of the loved one.

Type two: Believes in Jesus Christ as the Messiah. Has troubles in his/her life but always has the reassurance that there is something better waiting (like....waiting 20 minutes even though you're really hungry because in 20 minutes you can go to your favorite restaurant and get whatever you want) in heaven. Through ups and downs no matter how lonely he/she always has someone watching over them. Decisions are made easier by the belief that the Lord will guide you on your path to righteousness. If loved ones die, there is a reassurance in knowing that they are not gone forever as they are in a infinitely better place where you will eventually join them.

Now, let's assume god does not exist, neither does heaven, and in death people completely and utterly cease to exist. Group 1 spent their entire lives not believing in any purpose (the truth) and Group 2 spent their entire lives feeling comforted, feeling joy in their salvation, feeling safe, and feeling wonderful anticipation for the day they would join Christ in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Whatever you believe doesn't matter because you're going to be dead anyway, SO:
the only time you had was here on Earth.
Group 2 believed in a falsehood. Group 1 believed in the truth.
Group 2 was a buttload happier than Group 1 could ever be. The only time to exist felt safer and happier for Group 2 than for Group 1.

Which group is smarter.

[Runt]

Hi Runty - where did you get the blurb on evil existing?

From the "Principles and Purposes" as stated on the Unitarian Universalist Association's website: http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html

I personally don't believe in the concept of evil, sin, or hell.

Well, the website never addressed sin or hell... and personally I don't think the concept of evil has to be tied to these; it CAN be recognized as a subjective idea (i.e. murder is bad for SOCIETY, that which is bad for society is often called "evil", so we use the word "evil" because it is convenient. It does not refer to an OBJECTIVE concept.)

[Mr Spinkles]

Gorilla--

Group 2 was a buttload happier than Group 1 could ever be.

You failed to take into account Group 3: those who know the truth, accept it, and lead happy lives anyway. They're probably not only the smartest group, but the most mature, don't you think?

And of course, there's always Group 4: those whose irrational beliefs lead to a willingness to pursue things which will detriment this life (i.e. soldiers sacrificing themselves in the name of religion, ritual corporal punishment, etc.) in the hopes of being rewarded in the next.

[Gorilla]

No I do not think Group 3 is more mature. The only way to classify which person (as I wouldn't classify the group) is more mature lies in who has more respect for the other persons beliefs. The post was a ponder this question. I have no other comment on Groups 3 and 4 as they were not part of the question. Look at it like some sermons, completely and utterly rhetorical.