Why not a UU (ritual, reject, mysticism, evolve, preach)

[Kungfuzed]

Since Unitarian Universalism is creedless, how is it a religion? It sounds more like a school or political organization (I can hear Beyonce singing to the left to the left ) than a church. I've never been to one but that's the impression I've got so far from browsing uua.org and reading some of the threads here. There's alot of studying of different religions but no doctrine of your own unless it could be the worship of human rights and tolerance. A school can have classes in different religions and still not be a religion itself. Perhaps that's why someone in another thread told me that not all UU congregations are called churches. I don't mean to sound negative. I like just about everything I've read so far. But is Unitarian Universalism really a religion?

[Stairs In My House]

Perhaps we should adopt this creed: "We believe that Unitarian Universalism is a religion." Then it would be a matter of faith and we can stop having to explain it.

In answer to the question, "We believe that personal experience, conscience and reason should be the final authorities in religion, and that in the end religious authority lies not in a book or person or institution, but in ourselves. We are a "non-creedal" religion: we do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed." (from the UUA website)

That sounds like a belief to me.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

Since Unitarian Universalism is creedless, how is it a religion? It sounds more like a school or political organization (I can hear Beyonce singing to the left to the left ) than a church. I've never been to one but that's the impression I've got so far from browsing uua.org and reading some of the threads here. There's alot of studying of different religions but no doctrine of your own unless it could be the worship of human rights and tolerance. A school can have classes in different religions and still not be a religion itself. Perhaps that's why someone in another thread told me that not all UU congregations are called churches. I don't mean to sound negative. I like just about everything I've read so far. But is Unitarian Universalism really a religion?

Kungfuzed, I know that you've displayed a friendly curiosity about UU, and from your perspective, you're just asking a question. But to be honest, I am tired of non-UUs coming in and suggesting that we are not really a religion. It's was ok the first time I heard it, and the second, and maybe the third and fourth .... but now I'm just tired of having to defend myself. I hope you can understand that's nothing personal against you; it's the situation. Why can't people follow the example of the Supreme Court and trust that if people say they are a religion, then they are a religion? To say that they're not is to impose one's own preconceptions of what a religion should be on to others.

We are like no other religion, yes. We defy many of the preconceptions of religion, yes. But we are a religion. We have a long tradition, dating back hundreds of years. We have our own rituals and symbolism. We have our theologians. We have shared beliefs and values. So why is it that just because we don't have a creed that makes us not a religion?

Our generally liberal leanings are a result of our faith, they are not the faith itself. I do not worship human rights or tolerance. I work to promote human rights and tolerance because of what I believe.

[Kungfuzed]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Kungfuzed, I know that you've displayed a friendly curiosity about UU, and from your perspective, you're just asking a question. But to be honest, I am tired of non-UUs coming in and suggesting that we are not really a religion. It's was ok the first time I heard it, and the second, and maybe the third and fourth .... but now I'm just tired of having to defend myself. I hope you can understand that's nothing personal against you; it's the situation. Why can't people follow the example of the Supreme Court and trust that if people say they are a religion, then they are a religion? To say that they're not is to impose one's own preconceptions of what a religion should be on to others.

We are like no other religion, yes. We defy many of the preconceptions of religion, yes. But we are a religion. We have a long tradition, dating back hundreds of years. We have our own rituals and symbolism. We have our theologians. We have shared beliefs and values. So why is it that just because we don't have a creed that makes us not a religion?

Our generally liberal leanings are a result of our faith, they are not the faith itself. I do not worship human rights or tolerance. I work to promote human rights and tolerance because of what I believe.

I understand what it's like to have to explain the same thing over and over. I do have pre-concieved notions on what a religion should be. I appreciate you answering my question despite your frustration. I never even heard of Unitarian Universalism before I came to this forum.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Kungfuzed

I understand what it's like to have to explain the same thing over and over. I do have pre-concieved notions on what a religion should be. I appreciate you answering my question despite your frustration.

Dude, I so appreciate this response.

A lot of people would have gotten defensive about themselves and then mad at me, and then restated their own conceptions more strongly, as if that would make a difference.

To be honest, when I first saw your question about whether UU is a religion, my first impulse was to respond snidely, because I really am sick of the question. But then I had to remind myself that from your point of view, you are asking this question for the first time, and with honest curiosity. And that it would be patently unfair of me to generalize you to all of the other people who have asked that question. If I did that, I would not be relating you as a person but rather responding to a generalization. Does that make sense? So... because of my faith, I had to rethink how I was going to respond to you.

UU is a way of life, not just a set of concepts. For me, my belief in the value of each person directly affects how I interact with people. (When another driver cuts me off in traffic, I try to repeat the mantra "inherent worth and dignity" intead of flipping the person off. ) It's not just abstract ideas about cosmology and metaphysics. We seek to live out our principles, which is why social justice has always been such a big part of UU.

I hope that makes our "religiousness" a little clearer. I know it's confusing. I was confused too when I first joined.

[Scuba Pete]

You know,

As a FORMER UU, I completely related to the sermon in the first post. Perhaps that's why I left? A lack of clear purpose and direction were some of the Hallmarks of the UU church I attended here in Orlando. I went back a month or so ago, and left with a void. I still hold ultra fond memories of growing up UU, and I still refer to it as the "Thinking Person's Religion".

However, I have also left the path that pulled me away from being a UU because of it's rigidity and demand that we all agree even in areas where I could not possibly agree (Haliburton's War).

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

You know,

As a FORMER UU, I completely related to the sermon in the first post. Perhaps that's why I left? A lack of clear purpose and direction were some of the Hallmarks of the UU church I attended here in Orlando. I went back a month or so ago, and left with a void.

Well Pete, I understand. We are still working on filling that void, working on the balance between throwing out closed-mindedness and rigidity but keeping shared values and purpose. And I sincerely believe that we are making progress. You would like my church, I think. But since you are not in DC, *shrug*, check back with us in a few years?

[Stairs In My House]

Originally Posted by lilithu

I think it goes back to what applewuud was saying, we need to be better about developing a more articulate message of what we stand for. Not a creed. But the unifying thing that makes us UU.

What would this look like? Are you talking about a sentence, a paragraph, an essay, a book? What misunderstandings or misconceptions would it prevent or correct? How would it be different than whatever it is we do now?

[Stairs In My House]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

clear purpose and direction

Could you provide some examples of these? They don't have to be UU-specific, just general examples of what a church's purpose or direction could look like. I am not arguing about your experience, but I am having a lot of trouble understanding what you and lilithu seem to be talking about. Examples help me better than explanations.