Why not a UU (ritual, reject, mysticism, evolve, preach)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Stairs In My House

When you say we have high turnover, what's your basis for comparison? Is it really reasonable to compare our turnover rate to religions where the majority of the members have been born and raised in their religious traditions?

Is it reasonable to compare? I don't know whether it's reasonable to compare but even if it isn't, that doesn't negate the fact that we have a high turnover rate.

Honestly, I'm surprised that this claim would be in dispute. Of all the things the sermon said this is not one that struck me as controversial. Every year, Unitarian Universalism attracts tons of new people, yet our numbers have stayed pretty constant. That can only mean that for all the new people whom we attract we are losing people as well. The number of our youth who grow up within the faith and then drift away is much higher than when compared to Christian denominations. Surely that's a fair comparison? Surely that indicates that there's room for improvement?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by applewuud

There's been a lot of change in the position of HUUmanists in the past 21 years. The integration that has been, and is still taking place, is to see religion and belief as part of our human heritage. Mid-20th century humanism rejected a lot of spirituality as superstition; it's evolved a pretty complex theology/humanology that is not just "agreeing to disagree" since then.

At my first GA in Ft. Worth I was dismayed to find that several of the humanist workshops that I had marked to attend consisted mostly of people griping about how UU was being overrun by irrational theists, and not about the strengths of humanism. Last year in St. Louis, however, I did attend a really uplifting workshop led by a humanist minster talking about how there can be space for both in his congregation and they did it. I'm also heartened to see Bill Schulz's reflections on what he now considers to be the shortcomings of earlier humanism while still lifting up its strengths now.

Originally Posted by applewuud

Having said that, we do have problems moving in a direction as a movement by trying to take every possible belief stance with us. The best statement of this challenge was made by the former president of Starr King seminary: when we merged Unitarianism with Universalism, we didn't really integrate our theological ideas into something truly coherent and redemptive as a movement. (I'll find that link if it's still up.)

I'd say that's what we most need now. And I see small steps in that direction from a number of wonderful people. If there is anything that I can contribute to this religion that I love, this would be it.

Originally Posted by applewuud

The hymnal is a real achievement of syncreticism...oh, that's another thread...

I'll admit there are parts of the hymnal that make me cringe, but that's the price I pay for worshipping in a diverse community. Overall, I agree that it's an achievement.

[Stairs In My House]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Every year, Unitarian Universalism attracts tons of new people, yet our numbers have stayed pretty constant. That can only mean that for all the new people whom we attract we are losing people as well. The number of our youth who grow up within the faith and then drift away is much higher than when compared to Christian denominations. Surely that's a fair comparison? Surely that indicates that there's room for improvement?

I'm saying that it might just be the way the game has to be played for a religion of converts (mostly). Isn't it still the case that aside from megachurches most major religions in the US are experiencing declining membership? I seriously doubt the various humanist associations are growing by leaps and bounds, either.

As for the youth who drift away, many of the ones who post on the Facebook UU groups say that they haven't drifted away from the religion, just from going to church because they're too busy with college or new careers or the typical things young twentysomethings have going on. Anecdotally, at least, there seems to be a pattern where youth drift away when they first enter adulthood and return when they start to have families (the old "atheists with children" joke).

I'm not trying to say that these things aren't problems, but that I don't think they should be automatically assumed to be problems particular to UUism.

Also, I feel kinda bad for picking on Mr. Reyka, who apparently passed away in 2003. I'm sure he was a decent guy who did a lot of good.

[Trey of Diamonds]

I think we have a high turnover rate for more than one reason. First, some people come to us because they don't know what to believe, and through the UU Church they can explore a multitude of religions and spritualities. Over time they find what it is they are looking for and choose to move on to a group that is more focused on that one belief. Another reason that I see a lot of is the desire to move back to a more Christian church. Many find that they miss the traditions and beliefs that they grew up with. I have no problem with either of these reasons and I am happy if these folks found some peace and assistance on their journey while in our Church.

I think those of us who stay UU are the ones who are more interested in the journey than the destination and aren't necessarily looking for a single belief to devote themselves too. I love the constent study and exploration of the spiritual path and can't imagine the idea of it coming to an end.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Stairs In My House

I'm saying that it might just be the way the game has to be played for a religion of converts (mostly). Isn't it still the case that aside from megachurches most major religions in the US are experiencing declining membership? I seriously doubt the various humanist associations are growing by leaps and bounds, either.

Not quite; most mainline protestant churches are experiencing declining membership. Catholicism had been declining but began to grow again under Pope John Paul II. (We'll see if that trend continues under the new pope. ) Mormonism is growing by leaps and bounds. And according to an analysis of us done by the Mormons (when GA was in Salt Lake City), if we were half as good as they are at retaining newcomers we would be growing twice as fast as they are. But we're not.

Originally Posted by Stairs In My House

As for the youth who drift away, many of the ones who post on the Facebook UU groups say that they haven't drifted away from the religion, just from going to church because they're too busy with college or new careers or the typical things young twentysomethings have going on. Anecdotally, at least, there seems to be a pattern where youth drift away when they first enter adulthood and return when they start to have families (the old "atheists with children" joke).

I'm also quite sure that a lot drift away and don't come back. They wouldn't bother to post on the Facebook UU groups.

I think it goes back to what applewuud was saying, we need to be better about developing a more articulate message of what we stand for. Not a creed. But the unifying thing that makes us UU.

I'm not saying "Omigawd!! this is so awful!! we need to take drastic measures!!" I think we're great. I just think we could be even better, and we're soooo close to it. Really. Just a little shift in attitude and we could be witnessing the beginnings of a UU revival.

Originally Posted by Stairs In My House

Also, I feel kinda bad for picking on Mr. Reyka, who apparently passed away in 2003. I'm sure he was a decent guy who did a lot of good.

He looked like a nice guy.

[uufreespirit]

In UU World, May/June 2003 issue, Rev. Sinkford wrote a piece called "The Most Church in America." If you'd like to read along, it's at the uua.org website...just add /2003/03/calling. Anyway, here's a bit of it...

"When we held our General Assembly in Salt Lake City in 1999, the Rev. Stefan Jonasson, now the UUA's coordinator of services to large congregations, met with the head of missionary work for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Knowing that several thousand of us were coming to town, this Mormon official had done his homework, and he told Stefan something interesting: Proportionate to our size, he said, Unitarian Universalists do a better job of attracting visitors than do the Mormons. But, he added, we do a terrible job keeping them. "If your churches were half as successful at integrating and retaining members as we Mormons are," he concluded, "then Unitarian Universalism would be the most dangerous church in America."

Without getting into another of my rants/dissertations on the deficiencies and potential of our so-called "Faith of the Free," I'll just say that I believe that with greater focus on what it really means to be a part of "liberal religious community" (Davidson Loehr's phrase), where liberalism is seriously treated as more of a personal discipline than a kind of license...and if we could come to a little better general grasp of our "tradition and legacy" and what is unique and potentially life-changing about it, I think we actually could improve on our ability to keep our newcomers. I agree with Dr. Sinkford: A lot of folks, from Baptists to Mormons are counting on us never reaching that stage.

[uufreespirit]

... "the Most Dangerous Church in America."

Sorry. (Does this board have an edit feature, by any chance?)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by uufreespirit

In UU World, May/June 2003 issue, Rev. Sinkford wrote a piece called "The Most Church in America." If you'd like to read along, it's at the uua.org website...just add /2003/03/calling. Anyway, here's a bit of it...

"When we held our General Assembly in Salt Lake City in 1999, the Rev. Stefan Jonasson, now the UUA's coordinator of services to large congregations, met with the head of missionary work for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Knowing that several thousand of us were coming to town, this Mormon official had done his homework, and he told Stefan something interesting: Proportionate to our size, he said, Unitarian Universalists do a better job of attracting visitors than do the Mormons. But, he added, we do a terrible job keeping them. "If your churches were half as successful at integrating and retaining members as we Mormons are," he concluded, "then Unitarian Universalism would be the most dangerous church in America."

Yeah, I was thinking of Stefan Jonasson when I wrote my last post.

Originally Posted by uufreespirit

Without getting into another of my rants/dissertations on the deficiencies and potential of our so-called "Faith of the Free," I'll just say that I believe that with greater focus on what it really means to be a part of "liberal religious community" (Davidson Loehr's phrase), where liberalism is seriously treated as more of a personal discipline than a kind of license...and if we could come to a little better general grasp of our "tradition and legacy" and what is unique and potentially life-changing about it, I think we actually could improve on our ability to keep our newcomers.

Agreed. We need to emphasize that with liberty comes responsibility, and that freedom isn't the freedom to do whatever we want but rather what our consciences call us to do. We need to be able to say that we actually do stand for something, which we do. We don't have to change who we are, just how we talk about it.

Originally Posted by uufreespirit

I agree with Dr. Sinkford: A lot of folks, from Baptists to Mormons are counting on us never reaching that stage.

I really don't think that we are in competition with Baptists and Mormons for the same potential new members so it's not an issue.


And you should be able to edit your own posts via a button towards the top right hand corner of your post.

[Stairs In My House]

I dunno, I think "The Most Church in America" makes a pretty good slogan. For somebody. Probably not for UUs.