Please help me understand (priest, moral, salvation, beliefs, hell)

[ikitikitembo]

I'm a little muddled with this whole UU thing. I've read some of your explanitory posts, and still haven't grasped it. I get the impression that you're simply an organized group of humanitarians who aid people, and other congregations. I don't know the difference between you, and a person who cares for people, and respects their right to believe in whatever. I don't understand why you need a special name for all of this. I find that my views are very much paralled, but I feel no need to put myself under a specific category besides a humanitarian or simply one who cares for others...........???

What makes a Unitarian Universalits unique? Why do you need these congregations to function?

I'm sure someone can clear this up for me.....

[ikitikitembo]

...and another thing: I don't understand how one could be a Universalist in the Christian sense when it says plain and clear in John 3:16-18 (NIV): "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

?

[robtex]

Originally Posted by ikitikitembo

I get the impression that you're simply an organized group of humanitarians who aid people, and other congregations.

true.

I don't know the difference between you, and a person who cares for people, and respects their right to believe in whatever.[/quote]
no difference.

Originally Posted by ikitikitembo

I don't understand why you need a special name for all of this. I find that my views are very much paralled, but I feel no need to put myself under a specific category besides a humanitarian or simply one who cares for others...........???

What makes a Unitarian Universalits unique? Why do you need these congregations to function?

I'm sure someone can clear this up for me.....

Amy, David and Lilithu are going to be better at fielding this so I am standing down but
http://www.uua.org/

about us section is a great place to start. The princples and purposes section is paramount in that section.

I figured you were gonna wander in here sooner or later with questions...I remember thinking that when I was reading your earlier posts......Glad you stopped by.

[Hacker]

Originally Posted by ikitikitembo

I don't understand why you need a special name for all of this. I find that my views are very much paralled, but I feel no need to put myself under a specific category besides a humanitarian or simply one who cares for others...........???

I think there is a special "name" for it because it's an organization designed to promote community and to help others. Are there humanitarian churches? I think that community and a sense of affillitation and collaboration in addition to all of the good things U/U congregations do is a very important aspect in the feeling of "belonging" and having a group to share the same concerns with. Concerns like not ascribing to ONE specific doctrine, concerns of all races/sexual orientations, the welfare of others etc etc.

[Davidium]

Ok, before I launch into this... (which I shouldnt be doing, I should be either studying or sleeping) let me just say that alot of UU's might not agree with me... and this is fine. We are not supposed to always agree.

Unitarian Universalism is the most radical of all of the Protestant religious movements. We move beyond the protestant idea of the Priesthood of all believers, and into the idea of the Prophethood of all Believers.

We beleive that religious revelation is continuous, and is open to each of us to experience throughout all of our lives. Those revelations will be different, as each of us is different... and so one of the reasons we come together in religious community is to share what is revealed to each of us in our own Prophethood.

Social Works are not (or rather, should not be) what defines us as Unitarian Universalists... Rather, working for social justice should be an expression of the inner religious life of a prophet. Anyone can have an inspiration or a vision... a prophet is one who takes that inspiration/revelation/vision and then works in the world in relation to it.

Many UU's see a different kind of world than the one we are living in today, and are working in the world to make that vision a reality... but this is not about "humanitarianism" as much as it is a direct consequence of the Prophethood of all Believers.

Unitarian Universalists also accept that all human religion is exactly that.... human. That includes our own. Religion comes from deep within the human spirit and the human soul, and as such it is sacred and divine... but it is also flawed. There is no true perfect religion, for religion is the human attempt to express in symbols and ideas the ultimate truths of the Universe. As we humans are imperfect, so will each and every attempt to express and understand those ultimate truths also be imperfect.

A humanitarian and a prophet might each work in similar ways in the world, but their basis of motivation is different. For the Prophet, the ultimate goal is to move towards a new vision of how we humans can be in relationship to each other, to the world, to our own inner selves, and to that which is ultimate and divine in this Universe.

This is why we have congregations... this is why we have ministers... this is why we have faith and liturgy and ceremony and Sunday morning services... Because we are not at our core a humanitarian movement... we are a radical, prophetic, protestant religious faith that produces humanitarian works as a side effect.

Yours in Faith,

David

[Green Gaia]

I was going to leave this question alone because I know I don't have time to properly address it and because David summed up what I would have said anyway, (although he uses vastly different terminology than I would, but that's why we love him). But I'll take a stab at this as well:

Originally Posted by ikitikitembo

I get the impression that you're simply an organized group of humanitarians who aid people, and other congregations. I don't know the difference between you, and a person who cares for people, and respects their right to believe in whatever.

I would say we are a religiously liberal organized group of people who aid others as a product of our faith, but it is not our sole purpose as a group. The humanitarian aids others because they are compassoniate and want to end suffering or the feel a moral obligation to do so. So do we, on both accounts, but for us there is a bigger reason we do this and must do this. To understand why we must do this, you must understand our universal goal as UUs, which is stated clearly in our Principles: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all. Now, you may say this is the goal of the humanitarian as well, and it may be. The difference I see is this, and it's found in the idea of salvation. I don't mean the Christian idea of salvation where one is saved from going to Hell, it is similar but it is confined to this world. It is about saving humanity, saving ourselves and redeeming ourselves. The tricky part is, we must do this together. All must be saved for anyone to be saved, this is want we mean today by universal salvation.

Originally Posted by ikitikitembo

I don't understand why you need a special name for all of this. I find that my views are very much paralled, but I feel no need to put myself under a specific category besides a humanitarian or simply one who cares for others...........???

We don't feel it is a special name. We feel we are doing what humans with similar beliefs or traits have been doing since the beginning of time: organizing and creating a community built on those beliefs. As David said, we see all religions as man-made, one is no more special or divine than another.

Originally Posted by ikitikitembo

What makes a Unitarian Universalits unique?

Originally Posted by ikitikitembo

Why do you need these congregations to function?

I'm going to answer this question in a personal sense and prehaps it will be true in a larger context (but then again, maybe it won't). I could be a humanitarian on my own. I could feed the hungry, help the sick, protest injustices, lobby for change, etc., etc. I could live by all the Principles in my daily life. I could do all those things on my own, but I would burn out very quickly. I need my religious community, my congregation and others of my faith (like the UUs on RF), to help me renew my spirit in those times I am low of energy and resolve. We humans are social animals, we need each other even though sometimes we like to pretend we don't.

I know this is an incomplete answer, but I have to go now. Please feel free to ask more questions.

[BrandonE]

That was a fantastic post David. I think I will share that with the NewUU class I'm facilitating, if you don't mind.

[Willamena]

Originally Posted by Davidium

Ok, before I launch into this... (which I shouldnt be doing, I should be either studying or sleeping) let me just say that alot of UU's might not agree with me... and this is fine. We are not supposed to always agree.

Unitarian Universalism is the most radical of all of the Protestant religious movements. We move beyond the protestant idea of the Priesthood of all believers, and into the idea of the Prophethood of all Believers.

We beleive that religious revelation is continuous, and is open to each of us to experience throughout all of our lives. Those revelations will be different, as each of us is different... and so one of the reasons we come together in religious community is to share what is revealed to each of us in our own Prophethood.

Social Works are not (or rather, should not be) what defines us as Unitarian Universalists... Rather, working for social justice should be an expression of the inner religious life of a prophet. Anyone can have an inspiration or a vision... a prophet is one who takes that inspiration/revelation/vision and then works in the world in relation to it.

Many UU's see a different kind of world than the one we are living in today, and are working in the world to make that vision a reality... but this is not about "humanitarianism" as much as it is a direct consequence of the Prophethood of all Believers.

Unitarian Universalists also accept that all human religion is exactly that.... human. That includes our own. Religion comes from deep within the human spirit and the human soul, and as such it is sacred and divine... but it is also flawed. There is no true perfect religion, for religion is the human attempt to express in symbols and ideas the ultimate truths of the Universe. As we humans are imperfect, so will each and every attempt to express and understand those ultimate truths also be imperfect.

A humanitarian and a prophet might each work in similar ways in the world, but their basis of motivation is different. For the Prophet, the ultimate goal is to move towards a new vision of how we humans can be in relationship to each other, to the world, to our own inner selves, and to that which is ultimate and divine in this Universe.

This is why we have congregations... this is why we have ministers... this is why we have faith and liturgy and ceremony and Sunday morning services... Because we are not at our core a humanitarian movement... we are a radical, prophetic, protestant religious faith that produces humanitarian works as a side effect.

Yours in Faith,

David

My beliefs run along very similar lines, except that I don't believe humans (in general) are imperfect in any way. That implies some ideal human that they must compare themselves to, yet never be able to attain. What good does that serve?

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by ikitikitembo

...and another thing: I don't understand how one could be a Universalist in the Christian sense when it says plain and clear in John 3:16-18 (NIV)....

I am not a universalist in the Christian sense, but I would venture to say that those Christians who are universalists do not read that passage literally, or have a different interpretation than, "anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus goes to Hell."