Greetings (ritual, gospel, Deists, tradition, beliefs)

[Ibrahim Al-Amin]

To the UUs:

I am a Catholic-turned Muslim because I could never resolve many of the discrepancies of the Bible taught by the church. I confess, in my ignorance, to have never made an effort to learn of the Unitarians until now.

I read the introduction by Maize and am fascinated. From what little I know, it seems as though the Unitarians are in many ways like the Gnostics. Would that be true? Again, my understanding of Unitarianism is new, so I may be completely wrong. It's interesting to me because the "unity" versus "trinity" of God is what drew me to Islam, and I see parallels between Gnosticism, Unitarianism, and Islam.

Anyway, I have no point other than to say hello, I'm glad you're here, and will continue to learn more about Unitarianism.

Cheers.
IA-A

[ChrisP]

Definitely have a talk to any of the UU's who hang out here Ibrahim. Maize, Robtext, Jamaesi (who is an Islamic UU) are all great people!


Oh and I'm in the wrong forum... whoops thought this the "are you new" thread

[Ibrahim Al-Amin]

Originally Posted by ChrisP

Definitely have a talk to any of the UU's who hang out here Ibrahim. Maize, Robtext, Jamaesi (who is an Islamic UU) are all great people!


Oh and I'm in the wrong forum... whoops thought this the "are you new" thread

Islamic UU!? Thanks! I'll definitely make a contact there.

Cheers.
IA-A

[Green Gaia]

Hello! It's nice to meet you!

[jewscout]

shalom and welcome!

[Davidium]

it seems as though the Unitarians are in many ways like the Gnostics

Welcome!

I will try and answer your question...

Many Unitarian Universalists do indeed take much from the Gnostic Gospels, as one of many sources in continuing revelation. But I wanted to comment that looking for what Unitarian Universalism is by looking for what we believe is a fallacy. There are indeed the 7 principles, but I would say that many non-UU's also would have no problem with the 7 principles.

I know I sound like a broken record on this, but here I go again. What unites UU's is not any particular set of beliefs, but rather a covenant (or actually, a series of covenants.) A covenant is a sacred agreement between groups of people and that which is sacred in the world. For UU's, we form a covenanted community for spiritual and religious support, but that community may include people of many different faith traditions.

For example... I am a Deist who does find much wisdom in the Gnostic Gospels, among many other sources. But this does not mean that all UU's are Deists who find wisdom in the Gnostic Gospels. In fact, I know a few who think the Gospel of Thomas is simply full of it.... And the rational discussions of such issues (and many others) pepper our coffee hours after Sunday morning services.

What I have found is that, even though we UU's come from and find inspiration in many different faith traditions, (including islam) we often come to similar conclusions from those beliefs. Whether from the book of Genisis or from a concept go Gaia or from many other faith traditions, many UU's become defenders of the environment, and unite together in ecological causes. Maybe from Deism or from the rationalist tradition in Islam, many UU's come to believe in the necessary partnership in science and religion, and together work to make them true partners.

I could go on and on... but I will complete by saying that, while we have no doctrine, I think we have come to some similar conclusions on life, many of which are expressed in the 7 principles.

Yours in Faith, and welcome,

David

[Ibrahim Al-Amin]

Originally Posted by Davidium

Welcome!

I will try and answer your question...

I know I sound like a broken record on this, but here I go again. What unites UU's is not any particular set of beliefs, but rather a covenant (or actually, a series of covenants.) A covenant is a sacred agreement between groups of people and that which is sacred in the world. For UU's, we form a covenanted community for spiritual and religious support, but that community may include people of many different faith traditions.

For example... I am a Deist who does find much wisdom in the Gnostic Gospels, among many other sources. But this does not mean that all UU's are Deists who find wisdom in the Gnostic Gospels. In fact, I know a few who think the Gospel of Thomas is simply full of it.... And the rational discussions of such issues (and many others) pepper our coffee hours after Sunday morning services.

What I have found is that, even though we UU's come from and find inspiration in many different faith traditions, (including islam) we often come to similar conclusions from those beliefs. Whether from the book of Genisis or from a concept go Gaia or from many other faith traditions, many UU's become defenders of the environment, and unite together in ecological causes. Maybe from Deism or from the rationalist tradition in Islam, many UU's come to believe in the necessary partnership in science and religion, and together work to make them true partners.

Yours in Faith, and welcome,

David

Incredible. I am also of the rationalist tradition in Islam, and just by reading your post I already feel a connection with the UUs. Today I was at Borders searching for books on Unitarianism, but they had nothing, although the customer service rep stated that she could order three.

Can you recommend some titles I could order off of amazon? I'd really appreciate it. If not, maybe suggest another means by which I can learn more. I'll check out the web sites you provided.

Thank you, David, and thank you all for the warm welcomes.
IA-A

[Davidium]

I would recommend two, both of which I use is my "New to UU" class I facilitate here in Galveston.

"A Chosen Faith" by John Buehrens and Forrest Church. This is an excellent introduction to UU, both in theology and in our history/tradition.

"Walking Together" by Conrad Wright. This book is a little dry, but it is a wonderful introduction to the concept of covenant... as well as to Congregational Polity.

After that, it all depends on where your interest goes...

Yours in faith,

David

[lilithu]

Namaste, Ibrahim Al-Amin.

Wow, Catholic turned Muslim. What a cool religious journey!

Originally Posted by Ibrahim Al-Amin

From what little I know, it seems as though the Unitarians are in many ways like the Gnostics. Would that be true? Again, my understanding of Unitarianism is new, so I may be completely wrong. It's interesting to me because the "unity" versus "trinity" of God is what drew me to Islam, and I see parallels between Gnosticism, Unitarianism, and Islam.

In what ways do you think we're like the Gnostics? I can't say whether or not I believe it's true unless I know what it is you're focusing on.

Unlike David, I do think that there are things that we can say that UUs generally believe (tho always taking into account the right of conscience and that there will be some UUs who disagree). Actually, I don't think that David and I disagree on this; it's just a matter of what we choose to emphasize. For example, in general, UUs believe in "ongoing revelation." That is, we believe that the truth is constantly being rediscovered by each new generation, by each new person. In general, UUs do not believe that the truth is handed down and then "set in stone". Related to this, UUs tend to believe in the inherent goodness in humans. Because we have this inherent goodness in us, we have the ability to recognize truth when we see it, and the ability to take on the responsibility of our own spiritual development. This isn't to say that we never make mistakes; obviously we do; but in the grand scheme of things, we will choose good.

These are cornerstones of our faith tradition. Of course, they are not unique to us. I know people from many different religions who share these beliefs and I feel great kinship with them. But I do think that UU is unique in how strongly we emphasize freedom of conscience and the ongoing search for truth and meaning. It is for this reason that it is difficult to say what UUs believe, because we're always cognizant that someone else's conscience may not agree with ours and that the search is not over - what we believe now may change. To be a UU is to be comfortable with uncertainty. (Or at least to able to tolerate uncertainty. I can't say that I'm always comfortable with it.)

As for the unity of God. Yes, traditionally the Unitarian side of our heritage was so named because they rejected the trinity. However, that meaning has since been expanded to include the unity of all faith traditions. Among our ranks, there are Christian UUs (both trinitarian and non-trinitarian), Hindu UUs, Pagan UUs, Muslim UUs, atheist UUs, Buddhist UUs. We get along because ultimately we believe that these are all different expressions towards a unifying truth. A truth that is measured by how well we treat each other and not by the ideas that we espouse.

Here is how I look at it, and here I am speaking just for myself and not other UUs. I believe that God is good. And because of that I believe that God cares more about what is done in God's name than whether we got the details of God's metaphysical status correct. Even tho I personally view God as unity, I do not argue with people who view God as trinity or any other number. To me, that's like arguing over whether's God's eyes are blue or brown. It has no bearing on what's really important. And that is, as a believer, how do you express your faith? Does it make you more compassionate towards others, more passionate about justice, and more happy in your own life? Or does it make you meaner or apathetic or more irritable or more hurtful? Given that God is good, I can't help but believe that this is the basis upon which we will be judged. If I remember correctly, Islam holds this view as well. In the end, when we face final judgement, all of the actions of our lives will be presented to us one by one and our own souls will judge whether or not we measured up. There will be no doctrines to hide behind, only our own consciences and whether we truly believe that the good we did outweighed the bad.

[jamaesi]

Islamic UU!? Thanks! I'll definitely make a contact there.

Cheers.
IA-A

Here I am!