Islam and UU (minority, blood, mission, doctrine, churches)

[Ciscokid]

I have been thinking about something for a while now and wish to have other thoughts and opinions. One can make a case that the religion of Islam is one that supports terrorism and killing non-believers.

If this is true, If a case can be made then should Muslims be allowed to join UU churches?

I remember there being a thread a while back which talked about the fact that not everyone belongs in a UU church. Those who are racist, untolerant, look down upon those of a different sex, religion or nationality etc are not welcome in a UU church.

I have been told that peaceful Muslims are not "pure" or "orthodox" Muslims...meaning they are not obeying the Koran when it comes to defeating the infidels etc.

What are your thoughts?

[Green Gaia]

Whoa... I will have to think on this, but my first reaction is that you have been told incorrectly about what it means to be Muslim.

I will get back to you on more.

[Ciscokid]

Originally Posted by Maize

Whoa... I will have to think on this, but my first reaction is that you have been told incorrectly about what it means to be Muslim.

I will get back to you on more.

Thanks Maize! I know this is a deep topic and is probably hard to truly cover. I would love a Muslim to join in and give their input.

I think one of the questions that this discussion will hinge on is "Are peaceful Muslims, obedient Muslims?"

Note: I'm not pretending to have the answer, I'm searching for it.

[robtex]

Islam means submission. Many muslims are pacifists. As far as UU goes it is a meathod of study not a religion. There is no doctrine, no dogma no specific God to worship. This means pretty much anybody who is tolerant can be UU. If an indivdual supported religious wars and killing to appease a God he/she would not be UU materal irrgardless of which God he or she is following. By virtue of the prinples and purposes the fit would not be good. Furthermore, as UU's it is important for us to understand Islam as a faith and realize that most, almost all of its members are not cold-blooded killers but the same regular joe's and janes you find in any other faith. Religions don't produce killers nearly as much as killers practice religion.

footnote:
http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html

[jamaesi]

Whoa, too.

I promise I will post here, as UU Muslim, when I am not, you know, being flung from country to country.

Thanks Maize! I know this is a deep topic and is probably hard to truly cover. I would love a Muslim to join in and give their input.

I think one of the questions that this discussion will hinge on is "Are peaceful Muslims, obedient Muslims?"

Note: I'm not pretending to have the answer, I'm searching for it.

I will do in a week or two.

[Ciscokid]

Originally Posted by jamaesi

Whoa, too.

I promise I will post here, as UU Muslim, when I am not, you know, being flung from country to country.


I will do in a week or two.

Thank you Jamaesi. I hope I did not offend. I am trying to learn what it means to be a Muslim and in this day in age there are many opinions. I'm trying to find truth

[Green Gaia]

I've been trying to figure out how to proceed with this discussion without getting into a debate about Islam or what it means to be Muslim, which would be against the rules for an IR forum. Having said that I will state that it is my opinion that there is nothing anymore violent in the Qur'an than what you will find in the Bible. But whereas most Christians see the violence in the Bible as just a story or something that happened a long time ago, but isn't how things should be now - in Islam there is a large movement towards fundamentalism. There are many factors for this, of which I'm not going to try to get into.

Do I think Islam requires its followers to be violent? No, I do not. Some will disagree with me. But just as we see Christians do not all hold the same beliefs about everything, Muslims are divided as well. All of the Muslims I have met in person were people who just wanted to be the best person they could, who loved peace and freedom, and who genuinely respected others right to do the same within their own belief systems. I will be a PollyAnna and look for the good in the religion, judging it for what good I see done and not those who would seek to do evil acts and then try to blame it on their religion. So, just as I would not condemn all Christians or Christianity because a few blow up an Abortion clinic or a gay bar, I do not judge Islam on the acts of terrorists who just happen to be Muslim.

In our efforts to understand Islam, it would be a mistake to see it as simply a religious practice, one layer among many layers of a culture. For Muslims, as in few other faith traditions, religion is a way of life, and followers of Allah were meant to build a community, or ummah, based on justice, equity, and compassion: a principle that will sound familiar to Unitarian Universalists. For that reason, I think we should be reaching out to our Muslim brothers and sisters, we have our differences, but one thing UUs are good about is looking past the differences and focusing on what we have in common.

Cisco, for more information on Islam, I would suggest Islam: A Short History by Karen Armstrong. Armstrong traces the development of Islam from Muhammad through the eventual split between the Sunni and Shiite Muslim sects, the growth of Sufi mysticism, and the spread of Islam out of Arabia and into other parts of the world. She explains the importance of Sharia, or Islamic sacred laws, and their importance to the entire community. These laws are derived from the Qur'an, Islam's sacred scriptures; the sunnah, (customs of the Prophet Muhammad himself and regarded as the Islamic ideal); and the ahadith, or the documented teachings of the Prophet as recorded by friends and observers. The Sharia, properly observed by Muslims, was believed to "create a counter culture that would transform . . . corrupt political order . . . and make it submit to God's will."

Such context is vital for a Western understanding of contemporary Islamic fundamentalism, which Armstrong discusses in the last third of her book. Thankfully, she begins not by singling out such extremism as unique to the Muslim world but by drawing a portrait of the common values of fundamentalisms across religious lines — their critical stance toward democracy and secularism, their regressive treatment of women, their shared qualities of fear and their "deep disappointment and disenchantment with the modern experiment." Most importantly, she writes that fundamentalisms of all kinds are "essentially rebellions against the secularist exclusion of the divine from public life, and a frequently desperate attempt to make spiritual values prevail in the modern world. But the desperation and fear that fuel fundamentalists also tend to distort the religious tradition, and accentuate its more aggressive aspects . . . . Muslims are in tune with fundamentalists in other faiths all over the world, who share their profound misgivings about modern secular culture."

Commentary on the book from UUWorld.

I found a sermon from Lilithu's church on UU and Islam by Rev. Mark Morrison-Reed. He claims that:

...it is time to recognize that not only are we historically connected but that we share some common values as well.

This is what every person of Islamic background needs to hear us proclaim. What are these values? The oneness of God, that invisible creative force that undergirds existence; religious tolerance; and compassion for the poor. We should resonate strongly with this latter concern, for our own Purposes and Principles called for "justice, equity, and compassion in human relations." Again this mirrors the Qur'an: " ...they are righteous who ... donate goods and money for the love of God to relatives and orphans, and to the poor and the wayfarer and to the needy and for freeing slaves; And who are constant in prayer and give alms for welfare." Justice and compassion are central themes in the Qur'an, and being a doctrinal faith it requires that those who can give annually one-fortieth of their assets. Our colleague, Abhi Janamanchi, who has helped me to develop my thoughts about Islam, wrote, "I have yet to find another religious document other than the Qur'an that takes a praxis oriented approach to social justice which I feel Unitarian Universalism can learn from."

So, no I do not think that we should be turning away Muslims from our churches. In fact, we should be doing the opposite, we should be seeking them out and starting conversations with them in the spirit of understanding and education.

p.s. I changed the title of the thread, I hope you don't mind.

[Green Gaia]

More suggested reading on Islam from UUWorld.