Pluralism and UU theology (reject, tradition, beliefs, America, doctrine)

[lilithu]

The first real conversation that I ever had with our senior minister was an angry and defensive argument. (I was angry; he was defensive.) I felt at the time that he was not being sensitive enough to the religious pluralism within our congregation, and I still do. Our senior minister comes from a Christian background. Our congregation contains Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, and Atheists, as well as liberal Christians. But our Sunday services rarely recognize this pluralism.

In retrospect, I could have gone about the conversation more diplomatically, considering that I was relatively new to the church and he barely knew me. (It took a year to convince him that I'm not anti-Christian.) And since that first conversation I have come to understand and share his vision of Unitarian-Universalism as a strong faith tradition in and of itself, not just a rejection of other people's faiths, and not just a meeting ground for people of different faith identities. And I recognize that it is the case that our traditions historically come from Christianity. I share his vision of a faith tradition that is relevent to and in dialogue with other faiths. And I recognize that America continues to be a mostly Christian nation. If we are going to speak a "language of reverence" that can be understood by those around us, it will have to be heavily steeped in the Christian framework. I know that his non-pluralistic, Christian-framed Sunday services have a coherancy and emotional resonance that is attracting more and more people who also share this vision. As a result, I have brought up the issue of pluralism to him less and less and tried to be as supportive as I can.

But... I am uncomfortable with completely sacrificing our pluralism for that vision. I am uncomfortable with pretending that there aren't real differences between us. Differences that need not at all divide us but real differences nonetheless. I can't go into the details of our ongoing argument in this public forum. It wouldn't be fair to him. But my guess is that you guys are familiar with the tensions within our denomination. The "god-talk" that our leaders and many members (including myself) are increasingly engaging in is making our atheist members increasingly uncomfortable. They worry that reason is giving way to sentimentality. In addition there are the Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, and Pagans who don't necessarily mind the god-talk but wonder why it always has to be couched within the Christian framework. They wonder why the faith traditions from which they come are not also represented on Sunday mornings. I've been known as "Miss Interfaith-Dialogue" at my church. If people have a concern about our pluralism (or lack thereof) they come to me. They trust me to listen to their concerns respectfully and sympathetically because they know that I cherish all of their faith traditions. They trust me to do something about it, which as I said, I have been doing less and less.

In short, I am torn. I recognize all of the pragmatic considerations in favor of shifting more (back) towards a Christian framework. And then I wonder if I am selling out those who trust me for the sake of pragmatism. What good is relevancy if you've sacrificed one of your core values? Is it necessary that we actually do so?

Tomorrow evening, I will be co-facilitating our UU theology class at the church. Just like last year our senior minister is going to stand up and say, "this is what UUs believe" and then he's going to talk about God and humanity and the relationship between God and humanity, as if all UUs believe in God. As if this theology sufficiently underlies what all UUs believe. But this year I'm going to be sitting beside him. I can try to soften what he says, but I don't feel like I can contradict him without seriously disrupting the class and betraying his trust. I feel like some time between now and then I am going to have to choose to sacrifice one cherished vision for the sake of another.

[robtex]

I like your post. Insightful. I guess see UU fellowship as being just that UU fellowship. Nothing more nothing less. I don't look at the person in the next pew and try to think what he or she believes. I don't worry about what people think I believe. UU is the bond irregardless of the beliefs of the members.

I see the gay couple holding hands in the church smiling. I see the guy in his kilt in front of my section. I see the girls holding pagan symbols and the guy with the buddist shirt from Montana, if I remember correctly.

Alll in the same place all with the same goal. Fellowship. I think other spirtual institutions loose so much by focus so hard on what is "correct" to believe that they loose sight of the community they are in and the people they share there lives with.

To me the magic of UU isn't finding the truth or even your truth of what your place in life and society is but the ablity to share your own meaning with others without worrying if you are right wrong, or even different.

In the end the Christian, the Jew, the Muslim the Buddhist, the atheist and the pagan all live together. UU gives them a way to celebrate those differences while still being part of a fellowship.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by lilithu

In short, I am torn. I recognize all of the pragmatic considerations in favor of shifting more (back) towards a Christian framework. And then I wonder if I am selling out those who trust me for the sake of pragmatism. What good is relevancy if you've sacrificed one of your core values? Is it necessary that we actually do so?

Far from it. UU is the sharing of information in an open and nuturing way. I don't see it as sacrificing your core values to learn about something you don't neccessary believe in. Being open minded enough to explore the options is well within the core values of UU as an institution. Your dedication to research in my mind makes you a tremendous asset in those endeavors. I hope you post what you talk during that session. I would love to hear about it.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by robtex

Far from it. UU is the sharing of information in an open and nuturing way. I don't see it as sacrificing your core values to learn about something you don't neccessary believe in. Being open minded enough to explore the options is well within the core values of UU as an institution. Your dedication to research in my mind makes you a tremendous asset in those endeavors. I hope you post what you talk during that session. I would love to hear about it.

Namaste Robtex,

thanks for your thoughtful and kind responses.

My dilemma isn't whether I should learn something that I don't necessarily believe in, or even whether I should encourage other UUs to do the same. I already do that all the time. My dilemma is that I know that tomorrow night my minister will talk about "what UUs believe" (not just what he believes) and he'll only speak in Christian terms. Granted, they will be Christian terms in a very liberal sense, but they will be Christian terms nonetheless. He will say that UUs believe in the inherent goodness of man because we believe we are made in the "likeness of God." And I don't know whether I should say, "What about the UUs who don't believe in God? Where do they fit into all of this?" Or whether I should just bite my tongue and quietly suggest to the atheists in the class that they can look at that statement as poetic but not literal.

What about you, robtex? As an atheist UU how would you feel if your minister said that UUs believe humans are inherently good because UUs believe we're made in the likeness of God? Is that offensive? nonsensical? Or is it all good?

[robtex]

Originally Posted by lilithu

What about you, robtex? As an atheist UU how would you feel if your minister said that UUs believe humans are inherently good because UUs believe we're made in the likeness of God? Is that offensive? nonsensical? Or is it all good?

To me UU isn't about the answer. It is about exploring the question. The idea of a group with no dogma, no creed no doctrine allows for this. It is one man's answer that does not have to compete with mine even when it conflicts. I may think that a theory is poor or in conflict with my own but I can do that and sit in the same room (much like being in RF) and realize the real value is our ablity to explore various ideas together with mutual consent without having to agree on theories presented. In short, the comment wouldn't affect me in the least as I am more affected in a postive way by the process of UU fellowship which has infinitely more merit to me than the answers to the hypothicals purposed.

[robtex]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Namaste Robtex,

. My dilemma is that I know that tomorrow night my minister will talk about "what UUs believe" (not just what he believes) and he'll only speak in Christian terms.

Maybe it is not the best wording, but if your replace the word believe with the word explore (what UU's explore) it will be accurate. Be interesting to hear how this session goes after it is over. Hope you really enjoy yourself there.

About the frubals....glich in the system. It is the thought that counts.

[Terrywoodenpic]

To day I notice that a "Christian Unitarian" church had taken over a shop in a local village and opened as a Church.
It is the first time that I have seen a sign actually saying "Christian Unitarian Church"

Though Tenterden in Kent ( where I lived for many years)has a very old " christian " Unitarian Church, where an American president once worshiped,(can't remember which one).

Terry
__________________________________-
It is the first time that I have seen a sign actually saying Christian Unitarian Church

.

[Green Gaia]

Originally Posted by lilithu

He will say that UUs believe in the inherent goodness of man because we believe we are made in the "likeness of God." And I don't know whether I should say, "What about the UUs who don't believe in God? Where do they fit into all of this?" Or whether I should just bite my tongue and quietly suggest to the atheists in the class that they can look at that statement as poetic but not literal.

Namaste Lilith,

This is just me, but I think I would say something to him. If you know this is what he is going to say, I would talk to him before the class. It seems unfathomable to me, but is it possible that he just didn't consider that their will be atheists or even theists who would not agree with him in attendance to this class? I realize you have a larger ongoing issue in regards this (as does UU as a whole, I believe), but addressing this one may open his eyes to the larger issue? Perhaps for the class, asking him to throw in "this is what some UUs believe" or "this is what I believe". I would remind him that beyond our Principles and Purposes, he cannot speak for any other UU than himself in regards to belief. But I see your dilemma in not wanting to start an argument and I don't envy your position and it's one I think many of us are going to find ourselves in in one way or another in the not-too-distant future. Whatever your decision on this is, I'm sure it will be one of love for the congregation and loyality to yourself.

My thoughts are with you,
Amy