The place of Christianity in Unitarian Universalism (Jesus, rituals, moral)

[Davidium]

Hello all, especially my fellow UU's,

I am coming to you all for your thoughts and opinions, as I struggle with an issue within our own UU Fellowship.

About six months ago, we had a new member join our fellowship. He is a retired Congregational Unitarian Minister, with a PHD in Theology. He is a great guy, and though he is a very liberal Christian, he is indeed a Christian.

Now, he is a Unitarian in the old sense of the word... like William Ellery Channing was. He is a Christian who does not believe in the Trinity, but rather that God is one being, and that Jesus was a divinely inspired man and prophet. That is the original historical belief of the Unitarian Church, and one he still holds to (and defends well).

Now, I am not what anyone would consider a traditional Christian, but my beliefs have been called Christian Deism in the past. I believe that Rabbi Jesus of Nazareth was a great moral teacher and philosopher, who perceived and displayed more of the divine than all but a few other human beings through history.

For those of you familliar with Bishop John Shelby Spong, I find that he and I agree on many things.

So, I am helping this new member, who I am proud to call a friend, in founding a Small Group Ministry (Covenant Group) on Unitarian Christianity. I think that it is helpful for our fellowship to provide Covenant Groups for as many interests and faith traditions as possible. We have one for Deism, one for Buddhism, and several others. Why not one for Christianity (especially the Unitarian variety). There is even some interest for one.

And yet, I have run into resistance, and even outright prejudice over this issue from some members... usually very long term members. Some feel threatened by it, as if having such would change the very fabric of our Fellowship. I have countered this by stating that in order to truely live up to our ideal of being a free faith, we need to allow all faiths to be explored, including Christianity.

Do you all find similar resistance to such efforts within your congregations? If so, how have you delt with it? Do you think there is a place for liberal Christianity within the UUA?

Now, this does not really affect me directly... I am much more Deist than I am Christian... and more UU than either of them. But I am curious at the apparent dichotomy I have seen in some members who are so resistant to the idea of a Unitarian Christian Covenant Group, and was curious if this was a potential issue within the UUA at large, or something specific to the character of our local UU Fellowship.

If local, well then I will keep challenging others to be more accepting... if national, well that would take a much broader effort.

There is much of value in the teachings of Jewish prophets and teachers, including Rabbi Jesus... I would hate to see the UUA skip those teachings out of fear or prejudice.

YoUUrs in Faith,

David

Galveston Island, TX

[lilithu]

Namaste, Davidium.

I've only been a member of two UU congregations. The first one was heavily secular humanist and there was no real issue about whether or not Christianity should be "allowed." In other words, they could claim that they were tolerant of other faiths but have never had that tolerance actively tested.

My second and current congregation is much larger and more diverse, and yes, we have run into the same problems that you have encountered. We actually have more than one conflicting dynamic going on. First, our senior minister comes from the Christian perspective and refers to God and biblical scripture quite a bit. Members that are more oriented towards other faith traditions feel like they are not sufficiently represented from the pulpit and being marginalized. Second, there is an active anti-Christian sentiment in our church that comes mostly from ex-Christians - those who have rejected the doctrines of their upbringing, and react negatively, sometimes with hostility, when others in the congregation use the terms that they have rejected.

I am part of a group at the church which is trying to address all of these issues and find a way (if possible) for all voices to feel like they can express themselves. That, to me, is what UU is all about - our commitment to freedom of conscience. And that means that if someone comes to UU as a Christian, even as a trinitarian Christian, as long as they don't insist on imposing their truths on someone else, we must welcome them if we are to be true to our own principles. To me, this is obvious. Yet I have been surprised by similar experiences as you, where we have Buddhist meditation groups and Pagan celebrations, and Jewish and Muslim observances, which most people think are great, yet people have voiced opposition to a Good Friday service or the formation of a Christian study group. I have heard members say that if someone wants to be Christian, they can go to a Christian church instead of coming to ours. That, to me, is missing the whole point.

At issue is the matter of our true identity as a religious movement. Are we mainly a rejection of orthodox Christianity or are we an affirmation of freedom of conscience? A lot of UUs seem to be stuck in the rejection state - the "I'm UU because I am not Christian" state. That, to me, is extremely unfortunate. Not only do we lose out on a lot of spiritual wisdom, as you point out, but I also feel that we cannot progress very far spiritually - both as a movement and as individuals - if our identity rests on the reaction against someone else's identity. We need to positively affirm what it is that we ourselves believe and then live up to those beliefs.

I look forward to talking with you more about this at GA. Our senior minister will be giving the Sunday sermon and I suspect that he will touch on this issue as well.

-lilith

[Davidium]

Lilith,

Thank you for your response... I had a feeling I was not alone.

I think that the UUA is going through some growing pains at the moment... moving away from being a religion of "come outers" to a religion of "come iners". In other words, a faith that is chosen becasue of the positive message of free faith, not one chosen in reaction to another faith.

But, it is a hard lesson for us to learn.

I am at your disposal at GA for conversations! I can introduce you to alot of the Texas UU's, and maybe you can do the same for me and those in our nations capital!

YoUUrs in Faith,

David

[Green Gaia]

Wow, how did I miss this thread??? This is EXACTLY what I've been thinking about lately. I'm doing a little happy dance now that I know I'm not alone on this.

[Stairs In My House]

Something to consider is that it may not be just a reaction to the religion they've rejected. It may also be that non-Christians tend to get steamrolled over by Christianity in our society, and as a result tend to get a little prickly towards Christianity. I'm not saying they're right, I'm just saying it's an automatic reaction that may take a little thought and supportive conversation to get beyond.

As a non-Christian without much of a Christian background, I really don't think I have the rejected-faith reaction issues you've described. However, participating in Christian services and/or rituals often winds up being obligatory for me: a visit to in-laws requires saying Grace, attending a relative's graduation ceremony requires sitting through a Christian prayer (even though it's in a public school), then there's holidays, etc. I can't walk across a college campus in spring without hearing some maniac shouting about Jesus or reading the Christian youth groups' chalkings on the sidewalk. All of these things contribute to some resentment towards Christianity and a desire to avoid it as much as possible, as well as a certain amount of guardedness towards Christians.

I think that for people like me, there's an automatic twinge of "Oh no, here we go again" when anybody starts talking about Christian stuff. Unfortunately, it may be necessary for Christians to go to greater lengths to assure us non-Christians that they're not going to try to convert us or save our souls. Some Christians have been known to be pretty sneaky about the whole soul-saving thing, so we tend to be on our guard. Maybe it's not fair, but it's the very unfortunate reality of living in this culture.

I don't think blaming non-Christians for being on their guard is going to solve anything, because it's pretty much unavoidable.

[Green Gaia]

Welcome to the UU forum! Don't forget to stop by the Coffee House for some coffee and fellowship.

Originally Posted by Stairs In My House

I don't think blaming non-Christians for being on their guard is going to solve anything, because it's pretty much unavoidable.

I don't disagree with you. Non-Christians are sometimes a bit wary of Christians and not without good reason at times. But I don't want to get into that. I'm not non-Christian. I'm a Unitarian Universalist. To me that means I accept all religions as equally valid and actively draw inspiration and wisdom from them all. I think the point that David and Lilith were making is that we as UUs have for too long been willing to embrace every religion BUT the one our tradition started with. Perhaps we needed to push away for a while, but I think Lilith was right on when she said,

Originally Posted by lilithu

At issue is the matter of our true identity as a religious movement. Are we mainly a rejection of orthodox Christianity or are we an affirmation of freedom of conscience?

If we reject Christianity simply because of past prejudices and bad experiences, then we are not living up to our claim of tolerance for all beliefs. In essence we are not being UUs.

[Stairs In My House]

Originally Posted by Maize

If we reject Christianity simply because of past prejudices and bad experiences, then we are not living up to our claim of tolerance for all beliefs. In essence we are not being UUs.

And I don't disagree with you, either. In fact, I emphatically do agree with you. But what I'm trying to say is that it's one thing to understand that intellectually, and another thing to practice it automatically, without making the sort of deliberate effort that doesn't need to be made with non-Christian religions because they don't have the same historical baggage. If we were in a culture dominated by Islam then I'm sure we'd have similar issues with people who wanted to bring Islam into UU, whereas Christianity would be just fine, maybe even kinda cool and edgy.

I think discussing religious tolerance in our society without taking into account the context created by Christian cultural dominance is like discussing gender equity without mentioning patriarchy. What I'm trying to say (and may just be failing miserably to communicate) is that this is an issue that is going to require effort on both sides to overcome, and if people have bad feelings or fears about Christianity in UU then those need to be addressed in a sensitive manner and worked out rather than just making people feel guilty about not being tolerant enough.

I hope that makes more sense. Personally, I'm completely fine with Christianity as part of UU, but I'm just saying I can see where other people might be coming from. I think the goal should be solving the problem rather than placing the blame.

[Green Gaia]

Absolutely! Anyone who has been hurt or felt out-of-place in any faith and comes to the UU church seeking a spiritual home and community needs to be treated in a sensitive manner. I just don't believe that the UU church should be fostering prejudices against any other religion when we as an organization teach tolerance. I think as a movement, perhaps not all individuals are ready, but as a movement we are ready to move beyond that. And of course the utmost spiritual care should be given to those who are in need of it, no matter what the issue may be.

[Davidium]

It's all about "portals into the divine".

One of the things I am learning as I study Pastoral Care and Chaplaincy in the UU Context is that it is not about my beliefs... How different from other traditions.

UU Chaplains conduct a "ministry of presence". In order to do that, they need to be able to speak to people in the religious language and context that the person they are with is in. In other words, if you are ministering to a Buddhist, you need to be able to understand and speak to him/her in a Buddhist Context. If you are ministering to a Southern Baptist, then you need to be able to speak to them in the context that they find themselves in... and understanding.

As a Chaplain, most people should never know what my personal religious convictions are... I am there to speak to them from the heart, but in a language they understand. I am not there to try and convert them to Christian Deism... or even to UU for that matter.

As such, I think UU's are better suited to Chaplaincy than any other denomination, but that is another discussion.

My point is that in my UU path, I will need to be able to speak my spiritual insight, truth, and journey from a Christian perspective, in christian terminology, and using Christian scriptures more often than any other faith language, because that is the faith tradition I will most often face as I minister to others. Our denomination needs to realize this need... not just among our Chaplains, but among all of our members.... for in a sense all UU's have the potential to be "Lay-Chaplains."

This is one of many reasons why I think we need to re-connect to our faiths christian heritage.

Now, I use the title "Christian Deist" to describe myself... but notice that the "Christian" is the modifier, not the other way around. In my theology, I am primarily a Deist.... the Christian just denotes a flavor of Deism. I could just as well call myself a "Dynamic Deist" but no one understands what I mean by that (Unless they've heard me speak on it). So, while I do beleive that we need to re-connect with our Christian heritage, it is not from my own Christianity. 90percent of Christians would not consider me one. I am indeed a Deist first in my theology.... and a UU in my religion.

I know, splitting theology and religion confuses non-UU's.... but that is also another thread.

For me, bringing Christianity back into the UU faith traditions is not about "inclusivness". It is not about avoiding hypocrisy in our stance on value in all religous traditions. It is not even about helping to keep alive the flame of liberal Christianity in this world that seems determined to re-define Christianity as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

No, for me it is about the need of our own faith to be able to speak our religious insights, expressed partially in the Principles and Sources, in religious tradition and languages that all people can understand. To do that, we have to start where they are, not where we are.

YoUUrs in faith,

David Pyle
Galveston Island, TX