Christian responsibility to beg for mercy (Jesus Christ, Earth, gospel, Kingdom)

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by porkchop

These "christians" that tortured people i would not consider "christians"

The sentiment is reciprocated, I'm sure.

I know, it is a great misconception amongst christians.

[angellous_evangellous]

Never knew theology could be this much fun.

[Michel07]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

It was Bertrand Russell, the famous atheist, that brought sanity to American Protestantism by his criticism of how Christians treat women and homosexuals. The liberation of women, homosexuals, and even slaves did not come from Christianity but from atheist ethics which were liberated from the tyranny of the Bible and its interpreters.

I'd have to point to America as an excellent example of an atheist society, at least idealistically in its government. The seperation of church and state - thank God - spares us from another Dark Age instituted by evangelical Christians with a powerlust to re-establish a theocricy in the name of an insane god.

To properly judge the past it needs to be more well researched beyond its own infamy
and weighed against the culture of the time. Much is made of the negative and little regard is given the positive because so little attention is given the positive. The past is too often judged by those who were not there and against standards that are todays. Sometimes it is like the evening news as though that were an accurate reflection of the whole world. You credit Russell for too much and demonize Christians of the past too much. History is not the evening news.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Michel07

To properly judge the past it needs to be more well researched beyond its own infamy and weighed against the culture of the time. Much is made of the negative and little regard is given the positive because so little attention is given the positive. The past is too often judged by those who were not there and against standards that are todays. Sometimes it is like the evening news as though that were an accurate reflection of the whole world. You credit Russell for too much and demonize Christians of the past too much. History is not the evening news.

Neither one of them are in need of reinterpretation. The Catholic church is still wallowing in its sin, whereas Russell still speaks to it with great authority.

[Michel07]

Originally Posted by angellous_evangellous

Neither one of them are in need of reinterpretation. The Catholic church is still wallowing in its sin, whereas Russell still speaks to it with great authority.

Go get a real education.

[Troublemane]

Originally Posted by sojourner

We humans (especially Americans) see suffering as the absence of God. Perhpas we should be looking for God within the reality of human suffering, not outside the realm of human suffering. I believe that God is most available to us in our suffering, and God, having suffered on the cross, stands with us in solidarity in our suffering.

The whole message of Christianity is/was about suffering, I thought. Blessed are those who suffer, and so forth (Luke 6:27 and such). The message of Jesus seems to be very zen-like in some respects: Woe to those who are laughing now, for later you will weep. Yeah, this is what happens, today is great but tomorrow will suck. And the reverse also---if today is bad, eventually fortune will reverse.

What happens to everybody who is successful is there will come a day when they ain't ! This happened with Israel (was gods chosen nation, then brought low several times in history), Rome (was once great, now just a fading memory),Great Britain (not long ago ruled the world...) and this will happen with the USA as well---its inevitable: americans think we are hot stuff now, but eventually this country will fall out of ascendency and be brought low, too. Rather than seeing this as the absence of God, this is just the way things go. One day your up then your down, then your up again. its all transitory, so the message of Jesus is really "hey, just dont get all wrapped up in it, and you'll be fine"

[angellous_evangellous]

*bump due to recent interest*

[iclaf]

It would be a better idea if you changed your heart, rather than having the audacity to expect God having a change of heart. He is not the lilly livered god that this world thinks he is.

God's righteousness cannot allow any sinner to enter heaven except through the blood of Christ, and nothing can change that....

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Michel07

Go get a real education.

Good thing I'll know where to put it when I do...

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by iclaf

It would be a better idea if you changed your heart, rather than having the audacity to expect God having a change of heart. He is not the lilly livered god that this world thinks he is.

God's righteousness cannot allow any sinner to enter heaven except through the blood of Christ, and nothing can change that....

Good thing it's simple because I've been accused of being obtuse.