Christian responsibility to beg for mercy (Jesus Christ, Earth, gospel, Kingdom)

[I Panicked! At the Disco]

If you believe this, don't you have the responsibility to beg God to change God's mind and become more humane?

God's mind is made. He will not change what He has written in the Bible. I wish that everyone could go to Heaven, but that's just not the way it is. I'm so sorry you don't like what God has planned.

Our responsibility is not to pray to God and ask Him to change his mind. Our responsibility is to get out there and tell people about Christ and salvation. We must teach for others to learn. If all Christians were doing what they're supposed to do, everyone in the world would know about God. There are very few who don't as it stands, only those in extrememely rural and isolated areas. You may hate the thought of others going to Hell as much as I do, but I know that God is wise and he has a plan. I also know that it is my job to be an example to everyone I come in contact with. I am by no means perfect, but people who are not Christians will notice something differant about those who are, and they will be curious about what makes us this way. In that way, you can convert people. And the more people converted, the more will become missionaries and teach in all places of the world. We must be willing to accept God's plan, and to teach everyone we know. We can't just say "I don't like it, so it must not be so." And that's the bottom line.

[I Panicked! At the Disco]

As soon as you give me a solid verse supporting Universal Salvation, I'll believe in it.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Christiangirl0909

As soon as you give me a solid verse supporting Universal Salvation, I'll believe in it.

Romans 9

14What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy.

21Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? 22What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25As indeed he says in Hosea,

"Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,'
and her who was not beloved I will call 'beloved.'"
26"And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,'
there they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

1 Tim 2
3This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, 4who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man[a] Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Christiangirl0909

God's mind is made. He will not change what He has written in the Bible. I wish that everyone could go to Heaven, but that's just not the way it is. I'm so sorry you don't like what God has planned.

Our responsibility is not to pray to God and ask Him to change his mind. Our responsibility is to get out there and tell people about Christ and salvation. We must teach for others to learn. If all Christians were doing what they're supposed to do, everyone in the world would know about God. There are very few who don't as it stands, only those in extrememely rural and isolated areas. You may hate the thought of others going to Hell as much as I do, but I know that God is wise and he has a plan. I also know that it is my job to be an example to everyone I come in contact with. I am by no means perfect, but people who are not Christians will notice something differant about those who are, and they will be curious about what makes us this way. In that way, you can convert people. And the more people converted, the more will become missionaries and teach in all places of the world. We must be willing to accept God's plan, and to teach everyone we know. We can't just say "I don't like it, so it must not be so." And that's the bottom line.

Luke 18

1And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. 2He said, "In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. 3And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, 'Give me justice against my adversary.' 4For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, 'Though I neither fear God nor respect man, 5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.'" 6And the Lord said, "Hear what the unrighteous judge says. 7And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? 8I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"

[I Panicked! At the Disco]

Luke 18

1And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. 2He said, "In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. 3And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, 'Give me justice against my adversary.' 4For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, 'Though I neither fear God nor respect man, 5yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.'" 6And the Lord said, "Hear what the unrighteous judge says. 7And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? 8I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"

God isn't the genie in the lamp, he isn't just going to grant our wishes. What makes you think God is going to change HIS WORD that has been around for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Wouldn't he know when he wrote it that you would pray to Him to "change his mind"? And if he intended of changing his mind, what was the point of writing that version of the Bible? Why not just go ahead and say "you're all getting saved"?

[angellous_evangellous]

Originally Posted by Christiangirl0909

God isn't the genie in the lamp, he isn't just going to grant our wishes. What makes you think God is going to change HIS WORD that has been around for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. Wouldn't he know when he wrote it that you would pray to Him to "change his mind"? And if he intended of changing his mind, what was the point of writing that version of the Bible? Why not just go ahead and say "you're all getting saved"?

My best guess is God does what God wants.

Besides, given our current state of misery, I can't see any harm in:

"Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, soul, and strenth, and love your neighbor as yourself."

We can love God and yet beg him to change his mind. What sort of pitiless monster would not do the same, believing that God is going to judge the world and send people to hell?

Did not Abraham beg for Sodom and Gammorah? Deut 9.18-20?

[evearael]

What gift is that?

The ability to choose...

So do you give God full credit for every good act of humankind?

Yes.

We agree on this.

I don't think that your question makes sense.

We've established that we both believe that God is responsible for both good and evil in this world. Which is more dominant in this world... good or evil?

Then we read the story incredibly differently. As it stands, it is the story of how sin entered the world and thus referred to as "the fall." If you do not view it as negative, you should not refer to it as "the fall".

Yes, we read the story differently. I referred to it in the same manner you did for simplicities sake, not as a reflection of my beliefs on the matter.

I will not reduce myself to this dualism.

I still do not see where you are finding dualism. I do not wish to offend you... just curious.

It does not recognize the power of God to be good in and of Himself, nor does it allow anything else to be inherently good.

My personal take on God is that our vocabulary is far too limited to begin to adequately describe Him.

One can only have a good to choose: one good or another good. I agree, we would have no need for morality as we know it if evil did not exist - every choice would be moral.

"Morality as we know it" is the key part of that statement. I don't think it is truly possible to prove either of us to be correct on that basis... but it is still fun to try!

Who in their right mind wouldn't?! If God is good, and it's truly paradise, bring it on!

Yes. If God is good and there is no evil, and we can grow in perfect knowledge.

If there were no possibility of choosing evil, then we would not have had the choice to sin. In the context of the story... no.

Fair enough.

Because God gave humans the ability to sin.

At what point do you feel God gave us the ability to sin?

I did warn you that I was using the story as a metaphor only before sin was introduced

Yes, you did.

I was using the pre-sin metaphor to try and explain how - if God chose - that we could have grown with God learning only good things without the presence of evil. We could even struggle and toil to learn good things as we choose good from good.

Unfortunately, God created us with the ability to sin. Thus our wretched situation.

I suppose the crux of the matter for me is I do not see the capacity for struggle and toil without existance of evil. What is the struggle against? What resistance exists to cause us to toil? My view of evil is defined by the need to struggle against in and as the resistance that keeps us distant from God... and it is in that struggle and that toil towards God that we find spiritual growth. Furthermore, I do not view our situation as wretched. I see profound beauty in creation. I am awed and grateful that God would grant us free will, even knowing that we could use it for evil, and allow us this opportunity for spiritual growth... giving us this chance to express our adoration for Him by struggling against evil and toiling for good.

[angellous_evangellous]

Which is more dominant in this world... good or evil?

I don't have enough evidence to come to a conclusion.