Theological Parodies (Creator, tradition, Revelation, prophet, atheist)

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Should the government be allowed to pass laws governing your beliefs about atheism? If not, then it falls under the legal definition of a religion.

I once read a legal definition of an automobile as "a powered vehicle with four or more wheels not in a line, in contact with the ground or road surface." Sometimes legal definitions aren't really adequate for all purposes... unless, of course, my car really does cease to be an automobile while it's jacked up to change a tire.

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Atheists should have the same protection afforded to them that any religion has. Of course, they have the same responsibilities as well.

I kinda know the responsibilities of a church, and I kinda know the responsibilities of a religiously-affiliated charity or business... but what are the responsibilities of a religion?

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

but what are the responsibilities of a religion?

Who is your neighbor?

[yossarian22]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Should the government be allowed to pass laws governing your beliefs about atheism? If not, then it falls under the legal definition of a religion.
Atheists should have the same protection afforded to them that any religion has. Of course, they have the same responsibilities as well.

So, under the law, we are a religion, therefore we are a religion? That is absurd.

There are hundreds of legal definitions that do not adhere to traditional usage.
I will be more clear though
Religion ~a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny;
an institution to express belief in a divine power; "

Also, how does atheism function like a religion in any aspect at all? If atheism is a religion, then I can pretty much declare anything a religion, making it a useless term.

[Scuba Pete]

It's great to see you rely on a highly subjective definition. Let's just try Dictionary.com

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

While belief in the supernatural can play a role in a religion, it is not essential. Playing fast and loose with words does little to prove your point.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

It's great to see you rely on a highly subjective definition. Let's just try Dictionary.com

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Atheists do not hold one set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe any more than theists hold one set of beliefs about them. There is definitely no single moral code governing the conduct of human affairs that all atheists adhere to.

Atheists, by definition, do not consider the universe to be the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies.

Most atheists do not participate in devotional ritual observances.

Is this the definition you think makes atheism a religion? If so, why?

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

There is no specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by atheists, unless you're claiming that the belief in the non-existence of God makes a "set". I suppose that technically, a set can have one member (though a set can also have zero members, so I think it'd be just as logical to argue that the entire planet is a single religion, since they agree to an empty set of beliefs ), but I think this is stepping beyond the use of the term in normal speech.

Is this the definition you think makes atheism a religion? If so, why?

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

This one's clear enough: atheism does not meet this definition of religion. There are atheist associations, but most atheists do not adhere to them.

Is this the definition you think makes atheism a religion? If so, why?

While belief in the supernatural can play a role in a religion, it is not essential. Playing fast and loose with words does little to prove your point.

Fast and loose with words? Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is one.

There are atheistic religions (certain forms of Buddhism come to mind, and some other religions allow the individual member to decide for themselves whether God exists) and there are theistic religions (i.e. most of them ). There are theists who don't belong to any religion (I'd argue that a good portion of the people who describe themselves as "spiritual, not religious" fall into this category) and there are atheists who don't belong to any religion as well (i.e. most of them ).

But the flipside to arguing, as you effectively are, that the status of a set of peoples' belief in God is enough to define them as a religion is that theism as a whole is a religion as well. I don't know any reasonable person who would agree that Christianity, Islam, Wicca, Zoroastrianism, Native American religion, cargo cults, theistic Buddhism, Hinduism, worship of the Greek pantheon, etc., etc. are all the same religion. This is the implication of what you're arguing; unless you're okay with this, I think you should reconsider your position.

There are theistic religions. There are religions with theist members. This does not make theism a religion. By the same token, there are atheistic religions and there are religions with atheist members, but this does not make atheism a religion.

[Rolling_Stone]

Originally Posted by 9-10ths_Penguin

Atheists do not hold one set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe any more than theists hold one set of beliefs about them. There is definitely no single moral code governing the conduct of human affairs that all atheists adhere to.

Atheists, by definition, do not consider the universe to be the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies.

Most atheists do not participate in devotional ritual observances.

Is this the definition you think makes atheism a religion? If so, why?


There is no specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by atheists, unless you're claiming that the belief in the non-existence of God makes a "set". I suppose that technically, a set can have one member (though a set can also have zero members, so I think it'd be just as logical to argue that the entire planet is a single religion, since they agree to an empty set of beliefs ), but I think this is stepping beyond the use of the term in normal speech.

Is this the definition you think makes atheism a religion? If so, why?



This one's clear enough: atheism does not meet this definition of religion. There are atheist associations, but most atheists do not adhere to them.

Is this the definition you think makes atheism a religion? If so, why?


Fast and loose with words? Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is one.

There are atheistic religions (certain forms of Buddhism come to mind, and some other religions allow the individual member to decide for themselves whether God exists) and there are theistic religions (i.e. most of them ). There are theists who don't belong to any religion (I'd argue that a good portion of the people who describe themselves as "spiritual, not religious" fall into this category) and there are atheists who don't belong to any religion as well (i.e. most of them ).

But the flipside to arguing, as you effectively are, that the status of a set of peoples' belief in God is enough to define them as a religion is that theism as a whole is a religion as well. I don't know any reasonable person who would agree that Christianity, Islam, Wicca, Zoroastrianism, Native American religion, cargo cults, theistic Buddhism, Hinduism, worship of the Greek pantheon, etc., etc. are all the same religion. This is the implication of what you're arguing; unless you're okay with this, I think you should reconsider your position.

There are theistic religions. There are religions with theist members. This does not make theism a religion. By the same token, there are atheistic religions and there are religions with atheist members, but this does not make atheism a religion.

Ann Coulter is right in her book Godless.

[Fluffy]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

It's great to see you rely on a highly subjective definition. Let's just try Dictionary.com

1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

While belief in the supernatural can play a role in a religion, it is not essential. Playing fast and loose with words does little to prove your point.

Is theism a religion and, if not, why specifically is it not?

Originally Posted by Rolling Stone

Ann Coulter is right in her book Godless.

I've never read the book but it sounds interesting. What was she right about, Rolling Stone?