Theological Parodies (Creator, tradition, Revelation, prophet, atheist)

[Mestemia]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

PROVE conclusively that there is no God and THEN you have that right to feel so smug.

and how is this any different for your position?
I mean, you believe there is a God and until it can be proven to you that there isn't one...
Same thing with those who believe there is no God.
They believe there is no God and until it can be proven to them that there is one...

Seems to me that you are hiding behind the fact that God cannot be shown to be "conclusively" anything, let alone proven.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by Mestemia

and how is this any different for your position?
I mean, you believe there is a God and until it can be proven to you that there isn't one...
Same thing with those who believe there is no God.
They believe there is no God and until it can be proven to them that there is one...

Seems to me that you are hiding behind the fact that God cannot be shown to be "conclusively" anything, let alone proven.

My friend,

it appears that we are in the same boat. I cannot prove the existence of God to you, and you can not prove the non-existence of God to me. However, God has been revealed to me in many ways and for that I am grateful and rather saddened that you cannot see him as clearly.

In this respect, perhaps I use LESS faith than you, since he has indeed shown himself to me. Why me and not you? I can't answer that.

Last year we were at Venice Beach Florida where I scuba dive to collect fossil shark teeth. We were stopped at a stop sign, when I happened to spy a rather large parrot sitting on a bush. "Whoa!" I exclaimed, "look at that parrot!"
"You're hallucinating" was the reply from my friend,"Parrots don't come this far north!"
"He's RIGHT there!" I insisted, pointing to the bright green bird with a yellow tipped black beak.
Shaking his head he replied, "Surface narcosis is not a pretty thing! There is no parrot over there!"
Now the parrot was over 150 feet away and I could see it easily. My friend was looking right at it and did not see it. I pulled up to the next stop sign.
"Do you see it now?" I queried.
"No, I don't! You are spreading myths my friend!"
"Right there on top of the bush! What are you BLIND???"
"I'm telling you they don't come this far north and whatever it is..." I started to pull forward again when he finished "it's definitely Not a parr... Where in the hell did THAT parrot come from?"
At that point we were even with the yard and the red house was no longer behind the green parrot.
"Hey, look IN the yard dude!" and we saw a flock of about 15 or so of these parrots.

Yes, my friend was color blind. Something he did not realize even though he had many physicals in the Navy as an EDU diver. But he couldn't see that bird and was convinced that I was the one hallucinating. For him, that parrot did not exist until... his entire perspective changed. He had to see that bird from a different angle if he was going to see it at all. What was brilliantly clear to me was completely obscured to him.

So just because you don't see the evidences for God or are able to conclude that God exists does not mean that I am in error or that somehow my perceptions of God are flawed. In my mind, you just need a new perspective. That's all.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by Jistyr

But alas, it is not the responsibility of an atheist to disprove the concept of God.

Sorry my friend... there are no such rules here. It's simply NOT my fault that you cannot disprove God. I was asked what it would take to convince me to change my beliefs and apparently you have been found lacking in that regards. I know that failure is hard to accept, but I still believe in God. Better luck next time!

[Jistyr]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

So just because you don't see the evidences for God or are able to conclude that God exists does not mean that I am in error or that somehow my perceptions of God are flawed. In my mind, you just need a new perspective. That's all.

It would seem so, but unfortunately this is not the same scenario as your friend, and I would have to disagree. We both have the same capacity to gather knowledge, unlike you and your friend in the fact that he could not see as well as you.

The problem comes in defining what you consider having God reveal himself to you. Unless you have some other witness or anything else to testify the fact that God was actually present before you, or spoke to your, or revealed himself to you in any which way, you may call it truly seeing God, but I will call it wishful thinking.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Sorry my friend... there are no such rules here. It's simply NOT my fault that you cannot disprove God. I was asked what it would take to convince me to change my beliefs and apparently you have been found lacking in that regards. I know that failure is hard to accept, but I still believe in God. Better luck next time!

Jistyr has a point, though. If we're speaking logically, then the burden of proof is on those who make the claim that something is the case, not on those who criticize the claim.

[Jistyr]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Sorry my friend... there are no such rules here. It's simply NOT my fault that you cannot disprove God. I was asked what it would take to convince me to change my beliefs and apparently you have been found lacking in that regards. I know that failure is hard to accept, but I still believe in God. Better luck next time!

My purpose is not to keep you from believing, it is almost impossible to do so with the ingenious cop-out that is known as faith, which allows you to believe no matter what rational argument I may put up.

My purpose is, in fact, to outline that if you were taking it logically, you cannot expect me to disprove God. You made the claim, now I expect you to support it.

Let me illustrate it a little bit better for you:

"I believe that an invisible spaceship full of telepathic aliens is located above the White House and they are using their mind powers to manipulate our representatives to orchestrate the war in Iraq. Can you disprove it?"

Didn't think so.

[Fluffy]

Originally Posted by Pete

So just because you don't see the evidences for God or are able to conclude that God exists does not mean that I am in error or that somehow my perceptions of God are flawed. In my mind, you just need a new perspective. That's all.

Do you do the same as well? Do you admit that your perspective could be flawed as well? If so I find your point entirely reasonable.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by Jistyr

My purpose is not to keep you from believing, it is almost impossible to do so with the ingenious cop-out that is known as faith, which allows you to believe no matter what rational argument I may put up.

That's a straw man. You have YET to put up a rational argument. On top of that, you employ faith as surely as I do yet because it's YOUR faith, you call it