The conundrum of the mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick atheist (Jesus, morals)

[ChristineES]

Maybe I can google and cut and paste an answer for you when I have the time.

[MaddLlama]

You know, I think it's pretty obnoxious that you write these posts, and then slather them everywhere you can.
Most people probably think because your posts are long, you're not actually writing them. But, the truth is far worse - you actually did write them, and you copy and paste the same exact posts on every religious discussion forum and blog you can get your hands on.

Really, don't you have something better to do with your time than telling everyone how wonderful you are?

Sitting in front of any electric tube or screen excessively is not a good way to live our life Fatman.

Yes, we can spend some of our life doing it, but if we wish to live a good life we need to get out a little.

Many computer addicts are just 'shells of a human' with glazed eyes, open gapping mouths and hunched backs sitting all day in front of an electric box looking for the answer to a happy life when all of the time the answer is within us.

You seem to spend a lot of time on internet forums, and blogs. Matter of fact even here you've bragged about how many you've been thrown out of.

I suggest that maybe if the answer to happiness is looking within, then maybe you should think about your apparent addiction to internet forums.

[Kungfuzed]

Don't let them get you down Vfr. I thought it was a really good sermon. It's not too often that I get to read a sermon for Atheists. I even pictured you standing at the pulpit with me sitting in the pews in the United Church of the Godless. I actually read through the whole thing and I think you make alot of good points.

I agree that there are people who call themselves Atheists who rebel against God and hate anything to do with God or religion. They seem to be the type of person who can't stand any kind of authority and when told to do something they will do just the opposite to spite you. Perhaps they should be labled as Antitheists rather than Atheists.

I do believe in following the golden rule, although it's easier said than done sometimes, especially in heavy traffic. Although I used to be quite religious, I did not cast away everything I learned when I became an Atheist. That would be like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. There are teachings I still practice just because I know from experience that they improve my life, such as abstaining from alcohol, ciggarettes, and not cheating on my wife.

In the future though, you might want to make your sermons a little more brief for those who lack the attention span to read it all, or just break it down over a period of a few days instead of posting three pages at once. One eats an elephant one bite at a time, not swallowing it whole.

[Rolling_Stone]

I read the whole thing and found it interesting and the discourse on spirituality eloquent, but atheist's credo and the humanist's manifesto are naïve.

...If we disagree with a concept, we must have another concept to replace what we have torn down in our minds as wrong.

This is a point I've made to atheists, and no avail. From what I've seen in the RF, they have nothing constructive to offer so all their efforts are aimed to demoralize.

I must block out everything that comes from religion and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject into the equation?

I also pointed out this once. How can someone be a "freethinker" if it means denying God if that's where free thinking leads?

Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an imperfect process in this life. But just as we can see the effects of the wind, while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see the difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within their lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any spiritual values.

Few theists have said it better.

The atheists creed is an obvious attempt to be profound, but I think it is laughably naïve and does not at all reflect the reality.

An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. [Never mind that to love God is to love one’s fellow men.] An Atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy. [I know of no theist who will disagree.]

An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it. [This can be interpreted as a kind of childish bravado; and “to subdue it” is egotistical ans dualistic.]

An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. [But we cannot abstract one thing from another, or conceptualize things as separate, and then expect our understanding to be anything more than an illusion.] An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. [Members of churches don’t build hospitals?]

An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. [Theists believe in both.]

An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man. [Theists disagree?]

He wants an ethical way of life. [So do theists.] He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter. [For the atheist, there is no “hereafter.”]

He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.” [Or, as someone else wrote, “To each according to his needs; from each according to his abilities.]

It's easily done to the manifesto, too, but you get the point.

[Rolling_Stone]

Aw, heck. I might as well do the manifesto, too. Is it profound? Maybe. Is it realistic? Not hardly.

We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems. [Committed to the metaphysics of “scientific” materialism.]

We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation. [What is “supernatural”? What is “nature”?]

We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life. [Who doesn’t? But those things are morally neutral.]

We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities. [So why are they less willing to defend it?]

We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state. [Fair enough, but why do they lie and mislead people into thinking it is part of the Constitution?]

We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding. [So long as it is politically correct.]

We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance. [Equality trumps justice.]

We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves. [Even if it means bankrupting companies and costing people their jobs.]

We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity. [By “transcend divisive parochial loyalties" they mean they want to impose their values.]

We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species. [And by this are we to assume theists don’t?]

We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest. [To what end?]

We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence. [Why? If we all end up dead, what does it matter?]

We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity. [An excuse for hedonism and a convenient way to avoid accountability and social responsibility.]

We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. [For others; not for ourselves.] Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. [As long as it agrees with our goals.] There are normative standards that we discover together. [But everything is relative.] Moral principles are tested by their consequences. [Likes and dislikes.]

We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. [When they aren’t aborted.] We want to nourish reason and compassion. [We want to impose secular and politically correct values.]

We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences. [A crucifix in a bottle of urine is art and to be “science” it must deny the validity of the inner life.]

We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos. [We are going to die, and with us, all our hopes and aspirations.]

We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking. [So long as we are measure of all things.]

We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair [and offer a philosophy of despair] and ideologies of violence [notwithstanding our own penchant for violence] and as a source of rich personal significance [as a way of getting what we like] and genuine satisfaction in the service to others. [So why are theists statically more generous?]

We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, [They believe denying the philosophical consequences of our beliefs] learning in the place of dogma, [as though they aren’t dogmatic…if they weren’t prone to being dogmatic this manifesto would have never been written] truth instead of ignorance, [my truth] joy rather than guilt or sin, [decadence] tolerance in the place of fear, [chaos] love instead of hatred, [sentiment over reality] compassion over selfishness, [rob from the workers and give to the indolent] beauty instead of ugliness, [people like ugly?] and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality. [Never mind whose reason, the blind faith we have in ourselves, and our narrow definition of what’s rational.]