What is faith? (Jesus Christ, ritual, tradition, grace, choice)

[Vfr]

What is faith?

from:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.gnostic/browse_frm/thread/0fd8ec2ac0dde13e/ed45471dc37e228f#ed45471dc37e228f


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

V:


When it comes to faith...faith must always be based on the fact of a 'first see-er' or 'first contact' that is telling the truth.

We do not come up with ideas to base faith on all on our own.

All religious faith is based on someone else's reports.

If this persons report is based on lies, than the faith must evaporate.

I am not shy to benefit from spiritual and religious tools. The only requirement is that the tool can be tested for practical application. And if the tool can't be tested and requires faith, I have to let it go for the most part since there are so many lies that religion of man is based on and no one can prove or disprove any of it.

See:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0

That is the beauty of being a freethinker. We can think for ourselves. As such, when we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for the job. Some tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the time being, and still others are trashed when we see they are broken and useless.

Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject into the equation?

Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

Religious practicers as well as atheists need to open their mind and see things without the delusions that both sides of this topic are stuck in.

'Honor dies where interest lies.'

As an agnostic freethinker my interest is in discovering truth.

When we limit personal prejudice we can open our minds to truth and peace. And realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside within the human breast."

If it is religion that atheists or theists need to adopt, they only have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of spiritual values must match our actions.

I discuss this topic of faith with an ex-rabbi towards the end of this thread:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=51.0

From my own perspective since religion is riddled with lies and ambiguities, the need for faith is where I leave off.

I test the spiritual traditions for veracity. Those areas that cannot be tested or otherwise proved are let go of and those that can be tested are either peace producing or peace destroying.

If peace destroying I let them go and if peace promoting I try to implement some of them in my life.

A lot of people get confused when I talk about inner peace.

Some of them call me a 'self righteous twit' or worse.

Well, just because I talk about this peace subject a lot, does not mean I practice it in all waking and sleeping hours.

Sometime I destroy me own peace as well.

But at least I do know the formula how to get back to a place of inner peace if I desire to return to that place.

Peace is always a personal choice as no one can do it for us.

Inner peace does not take faith...it takes testing and practice.

"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." ~ Hindu Sage



Take Care,


V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher

For free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion, recommendation or belief of any group or organization.

[FatMan]

Faith is a belief in something without proof.

[roli]

Originally Posted by Vfr

What is faith?

from:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.gnostic/browse_frm/thread/0fd8ec2ac0dde13e/ed45471dc37e228f#ed45471dc37e228f


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

V:


When it comes to faith...faith must always be based on the fact of a 'first see-er' or 'first contact' that is telling the truth.

We do not come up with ideas to base faith on all on our own.

All religious faith is based on someone else's reports.

If this persons report is based on lies, than the faith must evaporate.

I am not shy to benefit from spiritual and religious tools. The only requirement is that the tool can be tested for practical application. And if the tool can't be tested and requires faith, I have to let it go for the most part since there are so many lies that religion of man is based on and no one can prove or disprove any of it.

See:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=133.0

That is the beauty of being a freethinker. We can think for ourselves. As such, when we get a toolbox we can decide which tools to use for the job. Some tools are used a lot, other tools are left alone for the time being, and still others are trashed when we see they are broken and useless.

Traditional freethinkers do not accept me as one of their group, since I draw from spiritual paths as well as wordily areas to garner wisdom to live at peace. Traditional freethinkers do not like anything that comes from religion. Kind of a misnomer isn't it...I'm a freethinker...but I must block out everything that comes from religion and spiritual traditions and whatever other prejudice I wish to inject into the equation?

Psychologist William James once said, "A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices."

Religious practicers as well as atheists need to open their mind and see things without the delusions that both sides of this topic are stuck in.

'Honor dies where interest lies.'

As an agnostic freethinker my interest is in discovering truth.

When we limit personal prejudice we can open our minds to truth and peace. And realize the truth of Blake's words that "all deities reside within the human breast."

If it is religion that atheists or theists need to adopt, they only have to look as far as the religion of humanity. But just paying secular humanism lip service will not do any good. Our talk of spiritual values must match our actions.

I discuss this topic of faith with an ex-rabbi towards the end of this thread:

http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=51.0

From my own perspective since religion is riddled with lies and ambiguities, the need for faith is where I leave off.

I test the spiritual traditions for veracity. Those areas that cannot be tested or otherwise proved are let go of and those that can be tested are either peace producing or peace destroying.

If peace destroying I let them go and if peace promoting I try to implement some of them in my life.

A lot of people get confused when I talk about inner peace.

Some of them call me a 'self righteous twit' or worse.

Well, just because I talk about this peace subject a lot, does not mean I practice it in all waking and sleeping hours.

Sometime I destroy me own peace as well.

But at least I do know the formula how to get back to a place of inner peace if I desire to return to that place.

Peace is always a personal choice as no one can do it for us.

Inner peace does not take faith...it takes testing and practice.

"Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires." ~ Hindu Sage



Take Care,


V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher

For free access to my earlier posts on voluntary simplicity, compulsive spending, debting, compulsive overeating and clutter write: vfr44@aol.com. Any opinion expressed here is that of my own and is not the opinion, recommendation or belief of any group or organization.

Faith is what man can't function without,we all operate in faith, in fact ,we operate in faith on a daily basis,for everything,from work, to family,to social life,to driving,to eating,to banks, etc
Is any wonder why God would say,"without faith it is impossible to please God , for those who come to him must believe he is God and he is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him"

[JayHawes]

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Romans 5:1

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Romans 5:2

By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Galatians 3:26

For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.



2 Timothyi 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

[Hema]

Originally Posted by FatMan

Faith is a belief in something without proof.

I was going to say something along those lines.

[Omnichaotic]

It's kind of hard to explain, but faith to me is based on a sort of "inner knowledge" more than anything else.

[PureX]

Faith is not a form of belief.

Faith is not even based on a belief.

Faith is based on hope, in the face of ignorance. Faith is a chosen course of action based on a hoped-for outcome, in a circumstance where the outcome is not knowable, or predictable.

[Bennu]

Faith, for me, has always been a melding of paradoxes. Faith acts first as an arch between our external perceptions and internal conceptions, between the certainties of the self and
the ambiguity of the all; and yet, ultimately, transcends such divisions.

Belief, on the other hand, I see as an expression of faith, I don't agree with the OP that they are interchangeable. Belief is part of the substance of any religion, but faith is its essence.

(In all honesty I'd respond more directly to the OP, but I'm finding it rather difficult to read...)

Faith is, in some small fashion, an expression and reflection the universal unity within all, at least, as far as my opinion goes.