serious questions seekin serious answers (Jesus, priest, ritual, punishment)

[naturalphilosophy]

Well i have some serious questions, i think it would be great to have answers to.

1.the claim that because the universe is so complex and all that, there must be a god, well i question this notion. because you are saying that for something so complex to exist there must be something to have created it, well at first it makes sense, but that thing would have to be so much more complex to have created the universe, yet people believe it can exist forever.

2.The whole jesus birth, most christians agree that man(woman to) has a sin nature, well mary is a sinner right? christ was born through her, as you guys say we inherit this sin nature from adam and eve, birth of all people, so since mary is a sinner, jesus couldnt be perfect right, because a HUMAN concieved him.

3.Christ teaches things such as, love god with all your heart, and love your neighbor, do good to those who persecute you, treat others as you want to be treated, yet the old testemant says things like eye for an eye, stone your son all that stuff, how can god change his rules at one time if he is absolute truth?

just a few questions, from me to you guys, hope i get some answers soon. peace out

[doppelgänger]

I doubt I can answer these questions for you, but I can tell how I might answer them.

Originally Posted by naturalphilosophy

1.the claim that because the universe is so complex and all that, there must be a god, well i question this notion. because you are saying that for something so complex to exist there must be something to have created it, well at first it makes sense, but that thing would have to be so much more complex to have created the universe, yet people believe it can exist forever.

For there to be the order and complexity I perceive, there must be a consciousness creating that order or complexity, because those are terms of relative judgment. This doesn't need to be some distinct being or thing imagined as "God the Creator" though. My own consciousness awareness and use of language, the interaction between my self and the social reality in which I exist, creates the order and complexity I see.

Originally Posted by naturalphilosophy

2.The whole jesus birth, most christians agree that man(woman to) has a sin nature, well mary is a sinner right? christ was born through her, as you guys say we inherit this sin nature from adam and eve, birth of all people, so since mary is a sinner, jesus couldnt be perfect right, because a HUMAN concieved him.

I don't literally adhere to the idea of a Jesus born of a Virgin (I don't have an opinion one way or the other), but the simple solution to this apparent conundrum is the "immaculate conception." It's a doctrinal solution that is rather beautiful in its simplicity.

Originally Posted by naturalphilosophy

3.Christ teaches things such as, love god with all your heart, and love your neighbor, do good to those who persecute you, treat others as you want to be treated, yet the old testemant says things like eye for an eye, stone your son all that stuff, how can god change his rules at one time if he is absolute truth?

To be awakened to what it means to be the love of Christ is to be free of any perceived spiritual laws or obligations. Laws like those of the OT only apply to you if you think they do.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by naturalphilosophy

1.the claim that because the universe is so complex and all that, there must be a god, well i question this notion. because you are saying that for something so complex to exist there must be something to have created it, well at first it makes sense, but that thing would have to be so much more complex to have created the universe, yet people believe it can exist forever.

These are questions we simply don't have answers for. Both are extremely complex propositions for our mortal minds. Some place the answers in the hands of chance or random process, while others place theirs in faith in some governing power. Both are potentially valid explanations.

Originally Posted by naturalphilosophy

2.The whole jesus birth, most christians agree that man(woman to) has a sin nature, well mary is a sinner right? christ was born through her, as you guys say we inherit this sin nature from adam and eve, birth of all people, so since mary is a sinner, jesus couldnt be perfect right, because a HUMAN concieved him.

First of all, only some Christians believe that we are born with sin. I don't. I believe we are all born innocent. Jesus was born innocent, and unlike the rest of us, he never gave in to temptation, therefore he was perfect.

Originally Posted by naturalphilosophy

3.Christ teaches things such as, love god with all your heart, and love your neighbor, do good to those who persecute you, treat others as you want to be treated, yet the old testemant says things like eye for an eye, stone your son all that stuff, how can god change his rules at one time if he is absolute truth?

The law of Moses (which includes eye for an eye) was a lesser law given to a people who simply weren't ready to live the higher law taught in the New Testament. What you refer to from the law of Moses was a code of conduct, not a declaration of absolute truth. God can change the laws he gives to man without disregarding the absolute truths that exist.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by naturalphilosophy

3.Christ teaches things such as, love god with all your heart, and love your neighbor, do good to those who persecute you, treat others as you want to be treated, yet the old testemant says things like eye for an eye, stone your son all that stuff, how can god change his rules at one time if he is absolute truth?

I'll just take door number three, Monty.

Perhaps God has not changed? Perhaps Man's understanding/perception of God has changed instead?

Hebrews 1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. -NIV

God has always been a God of Love. But just like Religious Right of today, many of those former religious rulers blamed God for their decisions to wage war. Yes, God was exalted when the won, and he was cited as being the ultimate cause of all their defeats. Why would anyone else take the fall when God is so easily blamed?

[Rolling_Stone]

Originally Posted by naturalphilosophy

Well i have some serious questions, i think it would be great to have answers to.

1.the claim that because the universe is so complex and all that, there must be a god, well i question this notion. because you are saying that for something so complex to exist there must be something to have created it, well at first it makes sense, but that thing would have to be so much more complex to have created the universe, yet people believe it can exist forever.

2.The whole jesus birth, most christians agree that man(woman to) has a sin nature, well mary is a sinner right? christ was born through her, as you guys say we inherit this sin nature from adam and eve, birth of all people, so since mary is a sinner, jesus couldnt be perfect right, because a HUMAN concieved him.

3.Christ teaches things such as, love god with all your heart, and love your neighbor, do good to those who persecute you, treat others as you want to be treated, yet the old testemant says things like eye for an eye, stone your son all that stuff, how can god change his rules at one time if he is absolute truth?

just a few questions, from me to you guys, hope i get some answers soon. peace out

The first question is fair and deserves frubals, but my answer is only repeating something I posted in another thread.

Chaos and infinite complexity are indistinguishable. "Admittedly," Heisenberg wrote, "there is nothing in either physics or chemistry that has even a remote bearing on consciousness. Yet all of us know that there is such a thing as consciousness, simply because we have it ourselves. Hence consciousness must be a part of nature, or, more generally, of reality, which means that quite apart from the laws of physics and chemistry, as laid down in quantum theory, we must also consider laws of a quite different kind." Consciousness is intrinsic to the very Nature of Being itself. And if consciousness is in Its Nature, then dynamic self-reflection is Its Experience. However, such a concept requires that we postulate MIND as the principle, a Third Essence, to unify and coordinate primal the divergence within the original monistic I AM.

I'm not really Christian so the the second is something to which I've never given much thought. The answer to third question, I think, is really quite simple: the God-concept evolved; God didn't change, man did.

[roli]

[quote=naturalphilosophy;844516]

1.the claim that because the universe is so complex and all that, there must be a god, well i question this notion. because you are saying that for something so complex to exist there must be something to have created it, well at first it makes sense, but that thing would have to be so much more complex to have created the universe, yet people believe it can exist forever.

We all think too much in the box of human terms and conditions,and not outside the natural spectrum of time and eternity,using our limited and finite minds to try and comprehend and decipher such mysteries,God says, only by my spirit will you understand the things of God,and those things, revealed to Christians, are things God chooses to reveal ,in step with our ability to handle them.
Such questions,as good as they may be,we think ,should have a definitive answer,such as,if God created the world and all that is in it,who created God,where did he come from,how can someone or thing live forever.How can God say one apprent thing and contridict himself in the next.
These questions are excellent questions and quite and yet,if answered in their simplest form could possibly seem uncomprehensionable,yet at the same time ,we can know this God,or creator, personally.If one chooses to assert that effort his way.

We can't understand everything about him for many reasons I'm sure,but one thing is sure,if we knew everything about him,what would that make us, gods as well, and then what problems would God have with us.
Anyways ,we as humans live ina realm, if you will, called time,and with that there is a beginning and end,so our first thoughts are everything else is under this dispensation as well and we can't grasp infinitity, oh,maybe in math and scientific studies and analysis, but with a being ,hard to handle.
But when it comes to beings,either super natural or natural,we think they are all under this thing called time,it is outside or vernacular to comprehend

2.The whole jesus birth, most christians agree that man(woman to) has a sin nature, well mary is a sinner right? christ was born through her, as you guys say we inherit this sin nature from adam and eve, birth of all people, so since mary is a sinner, jesus couldnt be perfect right, because a HUMAN concieved him.

Well, sin did come through Adam,but apparently Joseph never slept with Mary,the Holy SPIRT was the source of the conception,on that note, if it all rests in Mary,research indicates that the fetus and the maternal blood do not actually mix,how interesting,that eliminates Jesus from the literal biological blood line of Adam,yet the bible says,He is from the line of David,a seed of Abraham.
It must be in the realm of an heavenly kingdom
That my friend is another question.

3.Christ teaches things such as, love god with all your heart, and love your neighbor, do good to those who persecute you, treat others as you want to be treated, yet the old testemant says things like eye for an eye, stone your son all that stuff, how can god change his rules at one time if he is absolute truth?

Good question,I don't purpose to have the answers ,but maybe some insight only.
This could point to many things regarding, the seriousness of law and the holiness of God.
The priest and the prophet where basically the means to mediate the people before a Holy God ,they were carrying out the consequences of Israel violating the laws of God,sin has always been serious to God and always led to death, more so after the Mosiac law was insituted,Rom 4:15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression. This was one of many covenants God made with the people,he said the soul that sins shall surely die,and so they did.
Now, Jesus comes on the scene and offers himself up to be crucified for our sin,once and for all, this is what we call a dispensation of grace, as Romans talks about and as the sacrifice for sins has been atoned,we are no longer under law and the punishment of it,as was displayed in Old Testament time.
Covenants are a bond God makes with his people over and over again and this covenant God made by offering his Son up for us ,was the ultimate,the question is, how do receive it or do we?

[lillitruthseeker]

[quote=naturalphilosophy;844516]Well i have some serious questions, i think it would be great to have answers to.

1.the claim that because the universe is so complex and all that, there must be a god, well i question this notion. because you are saying that for something so complex to exist there must be something to have created it, well at first it makes sense, but that thing would have to be so much more complex to have created the universe, yet people believe it can exist forever.

The universe is so complex and humans beings have such a small part in it -- its hard to wrap your brain around the fact that we are just a speck in time in the universe

2.The whole jesus birth, most christians agree that man(woman to) has a sin nature, well mary is a sinner right? christ was born through her, as you guys say we inherit this sin nature from adam and eve, birth of all people, so since mary is a sinner, jesus couldnt be perfect right, because a HUMAN concieved him.

the virgin birth myth is seen in many many things besides christianity but they claim it as the only one although it is really a borrowed notion

3.Christ teaches things such as, love god with all your heart, and love your neighbor, do good to those who persecute you, treat others as you want to be treated, yet the old testemant says things like eye for an eye, stone your son all that stuff, how can god change his rules at one time if he is absolute truth?

human decency preceded the bible -- jesus didnt say anything that people didnt already do or know

[qwert18]

it's good to see so many people seeking answers.

[Comet]

1.the claim that because the universe is so complex and all that, there must be a god, well i question this notion. because you are saying that for something so complex to exist there must be something to have created it, well at first it makes sense, but that thing would have to be so much more complex to have created the universe, yet people believe it can exist forever.

There is an interesting book. I think it is called The new kind of science or A new kind of sciene. It is by Wolfram, I do believe. In it there were some interesting expiriements. It shows how the most simple program leads to the most complex results. (in computer programs) It seems a simple, not complex, thing can create a complex universe. So, if god exists, it needs not be complex.... just capable of stating a simple rule.....

2.The whole jesus birth, most christians agree that man(woman to) has a sin nature, well mary is a sinner right? christ was born through her, as you guys say we inherit this sin nature from adam and eve, birth of all people, so since mary is a sinner, jesus couldnt be perfect right, because a HUMAN concieved him.

I am not a Christian, but I could merely point out that he was came her to "cleanse" us (or forgive us) from our sins. It is said that he was God in the flesh or whatever other term you with to use. If he were merely God and knows not sin, how could he be sacraficed to forgive us for ours? It was the killing of sin itself, thus he would have to be part sin and part above sin. (not that I believe in any of that, but it does define from what point of view such a story must take place)

3.Christ teaches things such as, love god with all your heart, and love your neighbor, do good to those who persecute you, treat others as you want to be treated, yet the old testemant says things like eye for an eye, stone your son all that stuff, how can god change his rules at one time if he is absolute truth?

I will try to answer this in a few ways:

1. (From some Christians' perspective) Jesus is the New Covenant with God's children. It represents a "new era". It is a way for people to turn to God and not from him... a new way to feel his love while keeping your fear of him.

2. (From other "religious groups'" perspective) Not all believe that the Old and New Testaments belong together. Some would say it is two different God's. I'll refrain from going into this

3. (My perspective as a Monist) If God is absolute truth, then you must see no difference in your comments. Yet, you make God a he.... and thus you fall prey to the Dualistic perspective that will never allow you to see the absolute truth of things. Thus, there is no point in asking this question.