One thing in my way (Jesus, priest, moral, punishment)

[joeboonda]

Originally Posted by PureX

I don't believe for an instant that that man went to "hell". Not for an instant.

D.L. Moody was a fool, and should have explained to that man that he was loved and saved regardles of his doubts or hesitation.

For that man's sake I wish you were right. There are many who disagree with you about Moody, but that is your opinion. Moody did his best to lead people into a saving relationship with Jesus who said no man comes to the Father but by me, that He that believes in me has eternal life and he that does not believe is condemned already. I am afraid that instead of accepting Jesus free payment for his sins, that man is paying for his own sins in Hell. I am quite certain of it, actually.

[Super Universe]

Originally Posted by PureX

I don't believe for an instant that that man went to "hell". Not for an instant.

D.L. Moody was a fool, and should have explained to that man that he was loved and saved regardles of his doubts or hesitation.

Amen brother!

[joeboonda]

Originally Posted by Super Universe

Amen brother!

Alrighty then.

[ayani]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

I know God is love and God is just, and pardon my ignorance, but who is Mahmoud?

oh, Mahmoud is the guy i was having the conversation with.

Yes, again, the Bible is the only authority I find completely trustworthy.

moreso than your God-given capabilities for compassion and mercy? i don't know... it seems if you can desire to save this man from hell, surely God can desire it, and can do it. why would He be limited by such specific circumstances?

[joeboonda]

Originally Posted by gracie

oh, Mahmoud is the guy i was having the conversation with.



moreso than your God-given capabilities for compassion and mercy? i don't know... it seems if you can desire to save this man from hell, surely God can desire it, and can do it. why would He be limited by such specific circumstances?

Jesus said that whoever believes in, trusts in Him has everlasting life, but those who do not believe are condemned already, they must pay for their sins themselves. God certainly can save anyone from Hell but they must come to Him and place their trust in Jesus. Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by Him. This man would not trust Christ for he was afraid of what others would think. To be saved the Bible says we must believe in our hearts AND confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus. If we do not confess Him before men, He will not confess us before the Father. This man did not accept Jesus as his Saviour and died in his sins, that is all there is to it, its all about what we do with Jesus for He alone paid for our allsins on the cross, He alone can save us and if we choose not to place our trust in Him for whatever reason, we must pay for our own sins.

[ayani]

joeboonda- so essentially, God is limited by your specific interpretation of Christian theology? and that He can not ever move beyond the confines of what this theology dictates He can or can't do?

truly, that seems to be what you are saying. that God is limited by the Bible and by theology / apologetics. how is this compatable with the idea of God as One, All-Mighty and beyond any idea we can make of Him?

[nutshell]

He did not go to hell.

[roli]

Originally Posted by gracie

joeboonda- so essentially, God is limited by your specific interpretation of Christian theology? and that He can not ever move beyond the confines of what this theology dictates He can or can't do?

truly, that seems to be what you are saying. that God is limited by the Bible and by theology / apologetics. how is this compatable with the idea of God as One, All-Mighty and beyond any idea we can make of Him?

Gracie,I have been following your conversation and if I may,I would like to respond.
God is not limited by mine or anyone's perceptions ,or understanding of scripture or even my particular theology, but He is limited by one thing, and this is heavy Gracie.
God is limited by our choice to believe him,his word and his Son ,not to mention those who declare the word in truth.
When we believe, we open our hearts up to receive His love and revelation of himself through His Spirit and when that happens ,what you initially believed becomes an overwhelming assurance deep within,it's so much more then mere intellectual ascent

God says 2Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
God is always calling us ,he is so patient and merciful waiting for us to turn to him,but we think we are so self suffcient and have no need of him.
Pride,ususally is the root of this.
I think many don't want to recognise or come to God for one very important reason,that is if they acknowledge there is a God ,than they must also acknowledge that their is a standard He requires.
Much like why you won't find a criminal hanging around the police station,why ,well ,he's guilty,he's at afraid of being caught because he will lose his freedoms to indulge in his lifestyle.
It's not that people can't believe ,it's that they won't.
This principal is no different with God ,many people think if we ignore ,refute,make up all kinds of reasons as to why God does not exist and the bible is fallible ,than it justifies the lifestyle to indulge in sin.
Through this all, God is still patient ,unlike man's patience and He is not willing to let anyone perish,but we all have a day we will die and that day will be the end of our ability to chose.

But when tradgedy or chaos strikes as in 911,people cry out to this God that they never needed before,this always aroused curiousity when this happened
But he also says: Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

Gracie,Why are men hardened in their heart towards God,because they do not receive his son ,which is the gift of eternal life.Basically we sinned and he paid the debt for it with his own life,the most precious commodity in this world,is blood,blood in the is that which sustains life,the bible says it and so do scientists.
Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Eternal life lies in this one decision, believe or not, that Jesus is the Son of God and He will reveal himself to you when you believe,that means to trust and rely and have confidence in him as the redeeming sacrifice.
God was looking for a perfect sacrifice and Jesus was that and all who trust him have that righteousness that God will accept when we leave this temporal world
Jhn 3:36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jhn 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

The question than remains ,"do you beleieve"?

[Carol wis]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

Jesus said that whoever believes in, trusts in Him has everlasting life, but those who do not believe are condemned already, they must pay for their sins themselves. God certainly can save anyone from Hell but they must come to Him and place their trust in Jesus. Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by Him. This man would not trust Christ for he was afraid of what others would think. To be saved the Bible says we must believe in our hearts AND confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus. If we do not confess Him before men, He will not confess us before the Father. This man did not accept Jesus as his Saviour and died in his sins, that is all there is to it, its all about what we do with Jesus for He alone paid for our allsins on the cross, He alone can save us and if we choose not to place our trust in Him for whatever reason, we must pay for our own sins.

Hi joeboonda, I too have been reading along , everything you quote here is correct, but, sorry, I'm in agreement with Ayani. Gods' Mercy and Love are beyond our comprehension, I believe that's why we're not suppose to judge each other, no matter what the sin. You did everything in your power to guide this man. But isn't Gods Mercy greater? You had this man speak to you with his thoughts and worries. I think God knows his soul better than we even do. (REV2:23) "I Am the seacher of all hearts"We shouldn't be judging on by the way things look to us. God knows our frailties. You heard them yourself in this man before he died, Who knows what his conversation with Jesus was before death, this could have been quite different than the one you heard, and you were never aware of this, I hope you find peace Carol wis

[Darkness]

How petty you all make God seem. It is like those Jack Chick tracts. The people beg for God's forgiveness, but He is a ba*tard and sends them to hell anyway. It amazes me how easily people call evil, good.

I experience the reverse of this story. I am an Atheist and am afraid of what my Christian family would say if they figure out I am a non-believer, not to mention a Luciferian.