Hell,a geographical destination,or a state of the mind (Jesus, punishment)

[roli]

Originally Posted by Darkness

This description is wrong. Your own Old Testament tells you what Sheol (Hades, they mean the same thing) is.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 (King James Version)
Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave[SHEOL], whither thou goest.

The defintion was that in the greek and that in the hebrew,either way,separation from God is what one will experience who does not receive Christ, according to scripture.
Time will make it all to clear ,but when that time comes it will be too late to change your philosophy,your religion,this time on earth is the only time to choose Christ to redeem you and I from the consequences and punishment of sin.
One must be certain they are declared just before a Holy God who will not allow sin into his presence, for there is no return

[ChristineES]

There are hundreds of verses in the Four Gospels and you only list a few that talk about what you are saying about Hell. I think that Christians talk about Hell way too much and worshipping God too little.
All I was trying to say is when talking to a nonbeliever, you should talk about what God will do for them and not dwell so much on saying what will happen if they don't believe. It has the opposite effect of what you would want,I have heard hundreds of would be believers say so! You want to do good, I can see that very, very much. It may be effective for some to hear about it, but for most people it does not work, and it turns them away before they even have a chance to accept. We all want people to accept Jesus, and there is a right way and a not so good way to do it.
I am not against what you are saying and we are not in total disagreement. I grew up with a mother who was an atheist and later became agnostic before she finally accept Christ in middle age(not long after she found out her mother was a Jew). I know only too much what goes in the mind of at least one nonbeliever and somewhat in several others I have known. I am going by what nonbelievers have said to me in the past. We want to win them and not lose them.
God Bless.

[joeboonda]

1. Revelation 19:20
   And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
   Revelation 20:10
   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
   Revelation 20:14
   And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
   Revelation 20:15
   And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
   Revelation 21:8
   But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
2. Jude 1
3. 
   21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
   22And of some have compassion, making a difference:
   23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
   24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

[roli]

Originally Posted by ChristineES

There are hundreds of verses in the Four Gospels and you only list a few that talk about what you are saying about Hell. I think that Christians talk about Hell way too much and worshipping God too little.
All I was trying to say is when talking to a nonbeliever, you should talk about what God will do for them and not dwell so much on saying what will happen if they don't believe. It has the opposite effect of what you would want,I have heard hundreds of would be believers say so! You want to do good, I can see that very, very much. It may be effective for some to hear about it, but for most people it does not work, and it turns them away before they even have a chance to accept. We all want people to accept Jesus, and there is a right way and a not so good way to do it.
I am not against what you are saying and we are not in total disagreement. I grew up with a mother who was an atheist and later became agnostic before she finally accept Christ in middle age(not long after she found out her mother was a Jew). I know only too much what goes in the mind of at least one nonbeliever and somewhat in several others I have known. I am going by what nonbelievers have said to me in the past. We want to win them and not lose them.
God Bless.

I agree with you whole heartedly ,my worship of God is quite extreme and my calling to evangelise is not based on pleasing people and being seeker sensitive.
But preaching the whole word of God
I preach with love yet I am not conformed to this politically correct society.
Where if we preach hell sin etc.we are labelled intolerent,judgemental ,the list goes on,we are manipulated by society as to not offend,tell them Jesus loves them and has a wonderful plan for their life,this will make sinners happy and want to come to Jesus,but it will also create false converts
Study preachers of old and you will find when they had a move of God among the people it was because they preached ,sin ,law righteousness ,holiness,repentance,judgemnet hell
The repentance of people was astounding,people crying in the pews,truly sorry for their sins.
God does not come to bring comfort on the earth,people treat coming to Christ no different then they would in selecting a new house or car.
Their very souls are at stake here ,this is no small matter ,God is holy and demands holiness to enter his presence. Without one will not see God.
Sin is punishable by eternal separation from God,whatelse is there to preach.
If you had a terminal disease that threatened to take your physical life would you want me to passivy you with comforting words to stroke your ego or give you the cure that will be costly and leave you deprived of worldly pleasures.
I think you would care less about comfort but focus more on the cure regardless of the
cost.
What profit is it to gain the world and lose one's soul Luke 9 :23

Face it christians are afraid to witness properly as they may offend and me labelled.
Jesus commands men to repent for he has appointed a day in which he will judge the world according to his righteousness. Acts
Are you building freindships or making converts at any expense.
Jesus gave his life to bring the message ,but we tend to preserve ours in hopes to be received and welcomed by others and our philosophy is correct over the message Jesus preached ,I think not
Jesus first message was repent or you will perish !!
How politically correct was that then,it cost him his life,

[roli]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

1. Revelation 19:20
   And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
   Revelation 20:10
   And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
   Revelation 20:14
   And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
   Revelation 20:15
   And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
   Revelation 21:8
   But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
2. Jude 1
3. 
   21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
   22And of some have compassion, making a difference:
   23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
   24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Good word Joe,face it that is hard to hear for some, but I tend to think in his strong preaching his love is still present not willing that any perish but all come to repentance

[MysticSang'ha]

Hell, according to my interpretation of the Buddha-Dharma, is a mental projection, and therefore an experience of enormous suffering which we project out to others and henceforth boomerangs back to bite us in the arse.

Our repeated thoughts become our speech.
Our repeated speech become our actions.
Our repeated actions become out habits.
Our repeated habits become our character.
Our repeated characters become our destiny.

Hell is a destination of our actions and intentions. It is that simple of a formula, and no belief ever saves a wicked heart who succeeds in performing wicked deeds from a lower realm in the desire realms of samsara.

BTW roli, I thought this thread was introduced in Theological Concepts and not in one the debate threads. Though, it seems you are ready to debate. If you want to continue with responding to others' replies with a challenge, wouldn't it be proper to move this to the Religious Debates forums?



Peace,
Mystic

[joeboonda]

Originally Posted by MysticSang'ha

Hell, according to my interpretation of the Buddha-Dharma, is a mental projection, and therefore an experience of enormous suffering which we project out to others and henceforth boomerangs back to bite us in the arse.

Our repeated thoughts become our speech.
Our repeated speech become our actions.
Our repeated actions become out habits.
Our repeated habits become our character.
Our repeated characters become our destiny.

Hell is a destination of our actions and intentions. It is that simple of a formula, and no belief ever saves a wicked heart who succeeds in performing wicked deeds from a lower realm in the desire realms of samsara.



Peace,
Mystic

That is a good poem and I believe that it is all true, but it is not what puts a man in Heaven or Hell. God is holy, we are sinners and all our righteousness is as filthy rags compared to a holy God. Many very moral men will miss out on Heaven because they trust in their own righteousness to earn their way in. While it is good to be the best we can be, we must have our sin debt paid for. God loved us so much that, since the penalty for sin is death, He sent His Son to pay the penalty and die for all our sins. We come to him just as we are, and trust in what He did, as a free gift, to pay our sin debt and give us His righteousness in place of our own, freely. When we do this we go from darkness to light, from death to life, we are saved forever more. Then as we think better thoughts, say better things, do better works, etc. we grow in grace, into what God would have us be, not to earn salvation, it is free, but because He saved us.

[MysticSang'ha]

Originally Posted by joeboonda

That is a good poem and I believe that it is all true, but it is not what puts a man in Heaven or Hell. God is holy, we are sinners and all our righteousness is as filthy rags compared to a holy God. Many very moral men will miss out on Heaven because they trust in their own righteousness to earn their way in.

Ah, here we go again, joeboonda. Buddhism DOES speak of a hell realm (in fact, several of them) as well as a heaven-realm/god-realm (in fact, several of them), and yet none of them are seen as rewards or punishment. Buddhism doesn't look at the God-Realms as anything to "earn our way in," but it is simply what we are drawn toward in our next life if we continue our attachments toward the blissful temporal things in life. Hell is the culmination of our collective karma from our disregard and disdain for other sentient beings. Live a life of anger and hatred - no matter WHAT one's beliefs are - and that only continues the habits of a "hell-ish" mind.

Buddha taught what we think is what we shall become. In essence, if our mental habits constitute anger, vengeance, hatred, etc. enormous suffering (hell) follows us.

While it is good to be the best we can be, we must have our sin debt paid for. God loved us so much that, since the penalty for sin is death, He sent His Son to pay the penalty and die for all our sins. We come to him just as we are, and trust in what He did, as a free gift, to pay our sin debt and give us His righteousness in place of our own, freely. When we do this we go from darkness to light, from death to life, we are saved forever more. Then as we think better thoughts, say better things, do better works, etc. we grow in grace, into what God would have us be, not to earn salvation, it is free, but because He saved us.

And that is what you believe, sir. Not knockin' ya there.

I just wanted to correct some misconceptions over the Buddhist view of heaven and hell, and that we aren't trying to "earn" our way in to blissful existence.........the only merit we try to earn in the Mahayana traditions are encouraged to be dedicated toward the benefit of all other sentient beings. In fact, we see heaven as only being a part of the desire realms of samsara, and that our goal is to transcend it. To be a part of heaven is to be removed completely from other beings' sufferings, and therefore there is no urge to help others.

Our goal is the attainment of the bodhisattva - or one who has attained full realization but vows to liberate all others. One well known bodhisattva, Kṣitigarbha, vows to forgo Buddhahood and complete liberation of Nirvana (paranirvana) until "all the hells are emptied." He vows to remain in the hell realms doing what he can to relieve the suffering of all others there.



Peace,
Mystic

[UnTheist]

Hell seems to be his only motivation. I guess he has no reason to convert to Islam, right? I mean, the Qur'an does say the non-believers will burn in Hell for eternal. Don't you accept Allah as your Lord and Savior?