Do You Think You Would Regret..... (Jesus, punishment, mystic, choices)

[roli]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

No, but you can make a post, talk about scripture, and form an opinion without doing what Roli does: make a general statement, and then copy/paste a list of quotes taken out of context that may possibly or not relate to the statement made.
Just looking at the posts made by just about every other Christian on the forum, and Roli, there is a big difference. Every single one of his posts sounds like a bad regurgitation of an evangelistic tract. I would hope you don't see your posts that way

What is your definition of a Christian,
This is just a personal conviction of what I believe,much like many seem to have regarding their positions,opinions,views, whether they are associated to a theists position or a non - theists position,it still comes across fairly strong.

Is it possible for someone who is an unbeliever or atheist to express in an evangelistic manner with zeal and fervour, and maybe even conviction.
I see it all over the place.
But that would'nt be something you see in yourself would it ????
There are just as many non theist zealots as their are theists.
But again,just because a person says they are a christian does not make it so.
That stands for me as well,I'll let the word in which I stand define whetehr I am or not acting in the manner in which Christ calls us to.
But I apologise if I have offended anyone here, again I am trying really hard to be conservative and my intention is not to judge or preach.
But it comes across that way when I try to defend the views that some have towards God etc.
I will take your opinions and views and try to be a bit more conservative.

[roli]

Originally Posted by `PaWz

I believe we comprehend them just fine.

Your greatest 'tresspass' as you see it, is not believing. But that's the problem.

I would like to know what harm would be done if we didn't believe. What if I did all things that Christianity (or many other religions) calls for: Peace, Love, Kindness, Understanding, doing good deeds, ect ect. What more is needed, then? Believing in God doesn't seem to do anything.

I can only speak from what the bible says in regards to those who don't believe,which says they will be condemned.
Again, to believe here is not just an intellectual ascent, but much more than what I think most really attribute belief to.
When God says you must believe,well, many then say I believe and that settles it.
Belief means to trust,adhere,rely and have confidence in. to move to action
So to believe in God ,Jesus Christ,etc. means to trust his word,his actions,and rely on the fact that Jesus is the only way to God,that he did actually die on the cross and that we are all under sin.
The moment one receives this truth by first believing,God sends his Holy Spirit in to the heart of very believer and thus gives us the assurance and the confirmation of what we believed is in fact truth and that we are his adopted as children
It is at that point that a believer is converted through a spiritual conversion.
The Holy Spirit converts a man,not the act of believing, reading , praying or even going to church
I don't believe any of us can comprehend our sin against God,because we can't comprehend his holiness,and that sin can not enter into his presence by his very nature.
When he sees a born again christian,he sees the righteous of Christ that has now been accredited to our account by the sacrifice of his blood placed on the believer.

[UnTheist]

Originally Posted by roli

I can only speak from what the bible says in regards to those who don't believe,which says they will be condemned.
Again, to believe here is not just an intellectual ascent, but much more than what I think most really attribute belief to.
When God says you must believe,well, many then say I believe and that settles it.
Belief means to trust,adhere,rely and have confidence in. to move to action
So to believe in God ,Jesus Christ,etc. means to trust his word,his actions,and rely on the fact that Jesus is the only way to God,that he did actually die on the cross and that we are all under sin.
The moment one receives this truth by first believing,God sends his Holy Spirit in to the heart of very believer and thus gives us the assurance and the confirmation of what we believed is in fact truth and that we are his adopted as children
It is at that point that a believer is converted through a spiritual conversion.
The Holy Spirit converts a man,not the act of believing, reading , praying or even going to church
I don't believe any of us can comprehend our sin against God,because we can't comprehend his holiness,and that sin can not enter into his presence by his very nature.
When he sees a born again christian,he sees the righteous of Christ that has now been accredited to our account by the sacrifice of his blood placed on the believer.

There is really nothing else to comprehend. I keep asking you why we can still be nice to humans and make good deeds, and somehow that isn't enough to God. A God that arrogant is not worth believing in. Tell me how a non-believer is any less moral than a believer, and why we should do anything more than doing good and contributing to mankind. What else is required? Nothing. A non-believer is not a sinner. So I suggest you stop saying it.

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by roli

Is it possible for someone who is an unbeliever or atheist to express in an evangelistic manner with zeal and fervour, and maybe even conviction.
I see it all over the place.
But that would'nt be something you see in yourself would it ????
There are just as many non theist zealots as their are theists.

I don't consider myself to be a zealot. I don't really have any beliefs about god at the moment, so it would be a little hard for me to be zealous about that. I am however, positive that Christianity is not for me, so I would stand by my beliefs, or non-beliefs if faced with hell.

But I apologise if I have offended anyone here, again I am trying really hard to be conservative and my intention is not to judge or preach.
But it comes across that way when I try to defend the views that some have towards God etc.

You may not intend to preach, but from where I sit, you seem to be doing little else but preaching. My point of view may be skewed, but most of your posts sound like I'm reading an evangellical tract.
I'm not asking you to change - you can keep doing what you like. It's not my position to tell you what to do. I am simply pointing out the impression that I have.

[Scuba Pete]

Originally Posted by roli

Order is what I am discussing here, please enlighten me as to how I have made God out of order

One of the major issues confronting Christianity today is the loss of LOVE as the main means of evangelizing. So many want to merely argue rather than follow Jesus' plan.

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." NIV

Notice how Jesus never cites any particular doctrine... just love.

You simply CAN'T badger people into the Kingdom. It takes love. Lots and lots of love.

[roli]

Originally Posted by `PaWz

There is really nothing else to comprehend. I keep asking you why we can still be nice to humans and make good deeds, and somehow that isn't enough to God. A God that arrogant is not worth believing in. Tell me how a non-believer is any less moral than a believer, and why we should do anything more than doing good and contributing to mankind. What else is required? Nothing. A non-believer is not a sinner. So I suggest you stop saying it.

Each of us knows very well what is deep in our hearts and what we do when nobody is watching,God is the other spectator
Despite our good works we have all sinned in God's eyes
It's what is in the heart that God judges
1Sa 16:7 — But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Have you lied,stolen,hated,coveted, had sex outside marriage,violent,decieve.
Because our good deeds to God are filthy rags in comparison to being righteously accepted to God ,were not as good as we think .
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Pro 16:2All the ways of a man [are] clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
Paul a very devote man of the law said this:
Rom 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

[UnTheist]

Originally Posted by roli

Each of us knows very well what is deep in our hearts and what we do when nobody is watching,God is the other spectator
Despite our good works we have all sinned in God's eyes
It's what is in the heart that God judges
1Sa 16:7 — But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Have you lied,stolen,hated,coveted, had sex outside marriage,violent,decieve.
Because our good deeds to God are filthy rags in comparison to being righteously accepted to God ,were not as good as we think .
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
Pro 16:2All the ways of a man [are] clean in his own eyes; but the LORD weigheth the spirits.
Paul a very devote man of the law said this:
Rom 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

I'm done with this. Sinning does not make us horrible people. We are humans. We cannot be perfect. We will make mistakes. That is not a valid reason to burn one for eternity. You are just preaching to us and quoting the Bible for the sentillionth time, and that will do nothing to prove your point

[roli]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

One of the major issues confronting Christianity today is the loss of LOVE as the main means of evangelizing. So many want to merely argue rather than follow Jesus' plan.

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." NIV

Notice how Jesus never cites any particular doctrine... just love.

You simply CAN'T badger people into the Kingdom. It takes love. Lots and lots of love.

I can see how many will run with that verse and think if they just love each other as we know love.
But the fail to bring in the scriptures that say we must have the love of God first to fully and unconditionally love our fellow man.
Can you love without serving God,yes of course,but only partially.
1Th 4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.
You can't be taught of him if your not serving him
But what I am talking about is the love of God that is released into a christian when they receive Christ as savior.
It is a love for others unparalled with human love.
It can be mentioned but never experienced or even understood unless one is walking in relationship with Christ.
When the nature of man is transformed it brings on a whole new meaning,expression and expereince to love

[roli]

Originally Posted by `PaWz

I'm done with this. Sinning does not make us horrible people. We are humans. We cannot be perfect. We will make mistakes. That is not a valid reason to burn one for eternity. You are just preaching to us and quoting the Bible for the sentillionth time, and that will do nothing to prove your point

Sinning does not make us horrible people to one another
But to God our sin keeps us from communing with Him,walking in his will
God never hated the sinner ,just the sin.
That is why he sent his son to pay for the sin debt we owed.
Once you have that redemption,or pardon,your forgiven and accepted
You refuse to hear what God says,but remain in your own ideas and that is fine.
I'm not here to change your mind,only you can do that.
You need to have a talk with God on your own