Do You Think You Would Regret..... (Jesus, punishment, mystic, choices)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by CelticRavenwolf

That is a truely eloquent way to explain it, Lilithu! I had yet to meet a Christian who could view it that way. So many of them don't allow for independant thought, they just spew out what they hear in church. I think destiny is the right word for it. If that story were true, then I believe it could only be true if humans were meant to eat that fruit.

Thanks Ravenwolf. Just to be clear, I'm not Christian. But since Unitarian Universalism came from the Christian tradition many of us still look to these stories for meaning. For me the story is true but that doesn't mean that I believe it literally happened. Does that make sense?

[astarath]

I can't wait to discuss theology with God and find out the purpose he had for all religions of the world.

[SoulSearcher]

How could I regret standing in front of this being (what you call judgement) when he's never even made himself known.

[astarath]

If you are standing in front of him that will be the point when you know him.

[jmaster78]

i don't get it! if you look at things from a christian point of view, would a god of peace, love and FORGIVENESS really dish out the ultimate punishment for eternity? he expects us to forgive others, yet refuses to forgive us? what ever happened to 'practice what you preach'?

[SoulSearcher]

Originally Posted by jmaster78

i don't get it! if you look at things from a christian point of view, would a god of peace, love and FORGIVENESS really dish out the ultimate punishment for eternity? he expects us to forgive others, yet refuses to forgive us? what ever happened to 'practice what you preach'?

Yeah, I hear ya!

[astarath]

Originally Posted by jmaster78

i don't get it! if you look at things from a christian point of view, would a god of peace, love and FORGIVENESS really dish out the ultimate punishment for eternity? he expects us to forgive others, yet refuses to forgive us? what ever happened to 'practice what you preach'?

Does a dog tell it's master what the rules of the relationship are or does the master make the rules and the dog obeys?

God has given us simple commandments by which to live, sent 100's of prophets to remind us of them and even gave his only son to us to show how much he wants us to live as he asks. If through all this you chose not to follow his instruction, you have chosen to take the punishment that goes with those actions.

If someone commits murder they take the punishment for the actions. The court does not take flack for taking the life of the murderer.

If someone ignores the tenets of God they take the punishment for the actions. God does not take flack for taking away the heaven of the transgressor.

[jmaster78]

Originally Posted by astarath

Does a dog tell it's master what the rules of the relationship are or does the master make the rules and the dog obeys?

God has given us simple commandments by which to live, sent 100's of prophets to remind us of them and even gave his only son to us to show how much he wants us to live as he asks. If through all this you chose not to follow his instruction, you have chosen to take the punishment that goes with those actions.

If someone commits murder they take the punishment for the actions. The court does not take flack for taking the life of the murderer.

If someone ignores the tenets of God they take the punishment for the actions. God does not take flack for taking away the heaven of the transgressor.

if the master taught the dog free will, then gave it conflicting commands, passed down through a 2000 year chinese whisper, along the way corrupted by men who wanted the dog to jump through hoops for them instead, should the master throw the dog into the fire because it uses it's given free will to try and weed out the original command? personally i'm nobody's dog!

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by astarath

I can't wait to discuss theology with God and find out the purpose he had for all religions of the world.

Originally Posted by astarath

Does a dog tell it's master what the rules of the relationship are or does the master make the rules and the dog obeys?

Umm... so the "dog" gets to discuss with the "master" what his purposes are?

[CelticRavenwolf]

Originally Posted by lilithu

ust to be clear, I'm not Christian. But since Unitarian Universalism came from the Christian tradition many of us still look to these stories for meaning. For me the story is true but that doesn't mean that I believe it literally happened. Does that make sense?

Thanks for clearing that up. I was doubtful that you were Christian, but the way some of your earlier post was worded had me a little unsure.

Lol, and no, I can't see how the story can be true but you don't believe it literally happened. I can't quite wrap my mind around that one!

As for the dog analogy, I give to you all:

The Parable of the Insane Dog Breeder
"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16

There once lived a man who bred dogs. Over the years he worked to produce a breed of strong, intelligent and loyal animals. At last he developed a unique breed which, he liked to think, reflected the best of his own nature. And for awhile all was good. Then the animals began fighting. They fought among themselves and with other breeds. They fought and injured and killed, often for trivial reasons, sometimes for no reason at all. Worst of all in the breeder's eyes, the dogs became disobedient, sometimes not even recognizing him as their master. Because he could not bear their savagery, nor endure their arrogant disobedience, the breeder decided he must destroy them. He planned to kill them all.

Then he had another idea. He loved his dogs so much, in spite of their unremitting savagery, that he decided to put his young son in the dog pen as a model of innocence and virtue, to save the dogs from themselves. Surely, in the presence of such an obvious example, a teacher sent by their master, the dogs would be humbled and would learn to reject their monstrous ways. But in his heart the breeder knew this would not happen. He knew the dogs would kill his son. And they did. The dogs ripped away the young man's clothing and tore him to bloody pieces.

The insane breeder continued to love his dogs, and he told them, "Any of you who will believe this was my son, whom I allowed to be killed for your sakes, I will not punish, but I will bring you to live with me in my house."

Any human being who would do such a thing to his own son would rightly be condemned as insane, immoral and evil. In every human society, a person who abets the murder of an innocent for the sake of the unworthy, and calls it "love", is rightly regarded as insane, immoral and evil. If we would hold this opinion of a humble dog breeder, what then can we say of an omnipotent and omniscient Deity who does the same thing? How much more insane, immoral and evil must a Deity be, to commit a morally equivalent act? This is the plain and obvious moral abomination at the core of Christianity: the Christian God has the morals of an insane dog breeder who feeds his child to monsters. To deny this conclusion we must abandon not only reason, but simple human decency as well.