Do You Think You Would Regret..... (Jesus, punishment, mystic, choices)

[MaddLlama]

So, who is a better witness for Christ, and follow of Christ: the man who stands on a street corner with a Bible and a picket signs quoting verses arbitrarily, or the man who emulates Christ and lives his life as an example?

I'm not offended by the words in the Bible. They mean little to me, since I am not a Christian and don't plan on being one. To me it is not the message that is offensive, but the messenger. Don't you understand that? You keep telling me how I feel, but you're wrong. You are the problem, not your religion. It is people like you who give the world the impression that Christianity is a religion of dogma, intolerance and fire and brimstone. I see no love in your message, all I see is "I'm right, and you're wrong, and if you don't like then, then go to hell". That may not be what you intend to say, but that's how you come off to a lot of people, myself included.
And, if you don't believe me, that's fine too. No business of mine if you enjoy wasting your breath.

[roli]

Originally Posted by MaddLlama

So, who is a better witness for Christ, and follow of Christ: the man who stands on a street corner with a Bible and a picket signs quoting verses arbitrarily, or the man who emulates Christ and lives his life as an example?

I'm not offended by the words in the Bible. They mean little to me, since I am not a Christian and don't plan on being one. To me it is not the message that is offensive, but the messenger. Don't you understand that? You keep telling me how I feel, but you're wrong. You are the problem, not your religion. It is people like you who give the world the impression that Christianity is a religion of dogma, intolerance and fire and brimstone. I see no love in your message, all I see is "I'm right, and you're wrong, and if you don't like then, then go to hell". That may not be what you intend to say, but that's how you come off to a lot of people, myself included.
And, if you don't believe me, that's fine too. No business of mine if you enjoy wasting your breath.

Who's message,mine,LOL!!!you keep inferring this is my dogma,my message,my words,and at the same time you say you don't have a problem with the message.
If you have saw anything I write down ,it would be the words of Christ,so spare me the insinuation that these are my words,are your eyes open to see who's message I profess and stands on.
Would you blame Jesus,THE MESSENGER if I was'nt here,because I am sure he would cramp your style.
Why won't you turn to Jesus seeing how you defend him and his message so much
Have you been blaming people all your life,telling yourself they are the problem.
When it's all said and done you'll be responsible for what you did or did'nt do and you may be surprised to find that your pointing the finger will not benefit you in the least

[MaddLlama]

Originally Posted by roli

Who's message,mine,LOL!!!you keep inferring this is my dogma,my message,my words,and at the same time you say you don't have a problem with the message.
If you have saw anything I write down ,it would be the words of Christ,so spare me the insinuation that these are my words,are your eyes open to see who's message I profess and stands on.
Would you blame Jesus,THE MESSENGER if I was'nt here,because I am sure he would cramp your style.
Why won't you turn to Jesus seeing how you defend him and his message so much
Have you been blaming people all your life,telling yourself they are the problem.
When it's all said and done you'll be responsible for what you did or did'nt do and you may be surprised to find that your pointing the finger will not benefit you in the least

Haha, and Christians wonder why so many people are angry at them.

I'm sure if Jesus were here, he'd probably be more interested in talking to me about my life than reading the Bible to me. I'm sure Jesus and I would get along just fine, despite the fact that I'm not a Christian.
I'm not interested in not being responsible for my actions, or my words. Matter of fact I count on it, just as you can count on being held accountable for your own witness and your own attitude. Whether I end up in Heaven, Hell, Hades, the Summerland, the cold earth, or back in another body, I stand by my personal convictions. I'm not blaming my problems on anybody - I'm simply saying that it's a cold fact that there is a lot of animosity towards Christians these days, and it is people with hellfire and brimstone attitudes that help to create and fuel that animosity. If you won't even consider that, then I don't think I have anything at all left to say to you.

[zombieharlot]

Originally Posted by roli

I understand your point,but do you understand God's

I can't even understand the different points of view of my fellow men and women. How can I be expected to understand the point of view that a more complex, supreme being holds?

By the way, there is that blame shifting I mentioned else where.
He does'nt send anyone to hell ,we chose where we go here on earth
Maybe you just don't have a full understanding of this yet.

You can make your point, but don't indirectly belittle my knowledge and understanding of things and talk to my like a six year old.

Put your life in a video presentation and sit down and watch ,is there anything that you might not want God to view,not to mention yourself seeing it over again
Oh yes, you expressed from your logical view point of how you see it ,but ,have you left room for your part of ignorance regarding,who he is, what he has done and why.

And telling people that they're ignorant isn't going to help either. But anyway, yes! There are things I wouldn't want God to see me do, just as you have things you wouldn't want God to see you do, and just as Adam and Eve didn't want God to see them naked. "For all hath sinned and fall short of the glory of God," right?

Is it possible that you just don't have any idea of what you have actually done in regards to sin.

No, it isn't possible. I cross-dress.

Have you actually attempted to meet the conditional standards that God requires.
Do you actually know what they are ,maybe that is the question at hand.

Yes, and yes.

[None]

I wouldn't regret it at all. Because it won't happen

[CelticRavenwolf]

"Christianity is such a strange religion. What other God will damn you to Eternal Torment for not believing in his Endless Love?"

If I were to die and stand before the Christian God, learning that he was the one true god after all, he would do one of two things: judge me on my life and determine whether I was fit for heaven or hell based on that, or he would damn me to hell for not having believed in him and blindly followed his Big Sheep with the Holy Bells. If that be the case then I'd rather go to hell.

But since I believe in neither heaven nor hell, I don't forsee a problem.

[joeboonda]

We were born into an unfortunate situation, Adam and Eve chose to disobey God, this is called sin. The penalty for sin is death, it is a Spiritual Law. God loves us so much, that even though we were born spiritually dead toward Him, with a sinful nature, and are in fact sinners, God still sent His Son to pay the penalty of sin, death. Christ died so we can be reconciled to God. It is God's loving plan to bring us back to Him. We are in this situation, we may not like it, but we are definetely in it, so definitely that the Son of God had to leave Heaven and die to pay for all the sin of all the world once and for all. He did such a wonderful thing for us, it is a shame people turn it upside down and twist it with their meager logic. It is what it is, a wonderful free gift of love, that whoever trusts in Jesus is saved here and now forevermore to the uttermost. But Jesus clearly says those who will not trust in Him are still dead in their sins, they must pay for their own sins in Hell. Jesus died for a reason, to keep us out of Hell. If it is that important to God, we should take heed of it, honestly and sincerely. Time is running out for those who are rejecting the Lord, I pray people will consider trusting in the Saviour before it is too late. I know His words are true, this is Spiritual Reality.

[CelticRavenwolf]

I don't understand the need for a middle man. It suggests to me that humans are not accountable for their actions if one man, deity or no, just has to die to save the many. It especially has me running in circles when Jesus is really God incarnate, so He actually died do He could forgive us...?

I still maintain that in the grand scheme of things, Adam and Eve were supposed to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. Think about it. God creates humans who do not know Good and Evil. Then he puts the Trees in the middle and says they can have anything in the garden except the fruit of those two trees.

Why? If Adam and Eve blindly followed God, why would he tempt them when they have no way of knowing what temptation is? When the snake told Eve that God lied and said they wouldn't die if they ate from the tree, what reason did she have for doubting the snake, besides it casting doubt on her blind following of God? How did she know it was wrong to disobey God?

The answer is simply faith and blind love. NEver question god. That's the end of it. Pure and simple. And God, being the omnipotent deity that he is, knew they would disobey him and eat of the Tree of Knowledge.

Which tells me either a) Christian God is cruel and did it to prove a point to his creation, or b) The stroy of Adam and Eve is just that - a story created to explain how we were created the way that we are, and why women are inferior to men.

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by CelticRavenwolf

I still maintain that in the grand scheme of things, Adam and Eve were supposed to eat from the Tree of Knowledge. Think about it. God creates humans who do not know Good and Evil. Then he puts the Trees in the middle and says they can have anything in the garden except the fruit of those two trees.

That is my theology too. I think of "the Fall" as ultimately a good thing, a great thing. I've actually been thinking of developing a ritual to celebrate the Fall.

The traditional interpretation of the A&E story leads us to "worship" ignorance. We think that if we are ignorant then we are innocent, and we mourn for the loss of both and really, wish to return to that state. Hence the blind faith routine, it's an attempt to return to ignorance/innocence. Sorry, but that ship has sailed.

Whereas I interpret the A&E story as humans fulfilling their destiny. Sure, there is some sadness of seperation from God (or the illusion of such), just as there is sadness in a child becoming independant of his or her parents. But such separation is necessary in order for us to become fully responsible moral agents. No longer is the source of moral authority only external, but internal as well. Only thru the Fall can we fully express the divine within us. In learning the difference between good and evil humans grew up, out of the innocence/ignorance of childhood and into moral adulthood, where we can be full partners with God.