Do You Think You Would Regret..... (Jesus, punishment, mystic, choices)

[roli]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

II Corinthians 10:3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. NIV

Our battle is for the HEARTS and SOULS of the people. If you have lost sight of that, you are fighting a legalistic battle just because you can.

Ephesians 4:2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. NIV

There you have it: our command to be GENTLE!

If Jesus was as gentle all the time and politically correct as you allude to,why was he ,ran off ,persecuted and killed.

You quoted some excellent verses,but the key here is "the unity of the spirit"
You must be in the spirit ,the spirit of God was upon Jesus,as he is upon the born again believer,he loved everyone,yet he was accused of false teaching,claiming to be God and the son of God.
He preached sin,law, righteousness,holiness,repentance,forgiveness, judgement,
Why was he killed,please enlighten me as to why.

Jesus did'nt have a leg to stand on then and he certainly would'nt in today's society
He was just as offensive and unpopular then as he would be in today's culture.
The question is, who would be the one's to pick up the first stone, if Jesus stood among you declaring his message.
Jesus was meek,mild,humble and gentle, ABOUNDING IN LOVE when they sought after him to kill him.
It really did'nt matter what he spoke as much as what he represented.
No the message he preached is offensive,convicting,brings guilt and will provokes all of us at some time or another.

The messenger was never the problem, it was and always will be, the message

[Scuba Pete]

Then why all the admonitions to be gentle? I take it you don't read those scriptures and stick with just the ones that enable abusive behaviors?

Romans 12:9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 1112 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.NIV

Few were asked to be preachers. Most of us are called to win the world by our example. It's our pride that causes us to want to be the center of attention. Humility, patience and caring should ALWAYS be our hallmark. If people can't see your love, then they can't see the saviour. It's just that simple!

[roli]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

If you are to be persecuted, be persecuted for doing GOOD and not for alienating people due to your delivery. Don't be a stumbling block for people to come to Christ.

You should really understand the scriptures before you quote them out of context, in hopes to establish your point,it only makes you look nobel.
Again, why was Jesus killed, those who nailed him to the cross certainly did'nt think Jesus was doing anything good,come on.
To kill the Son of God,they must have felt he was evil,wicked,offensive
Maybe they even thought as you do,his delivery and that it was not in accordance to what they thought it should have been

Jesus was in actuality a stumbling stone of offense and Christianity has been advancing ever since,go figure why we are labelled as we are.
Mind you, there are those who profess Christian status,yet only to their own agenda
To them I am ashamed and apologetic,for their behavior and actions.
1Pe 2:8 Yes, he is very precious to you who believe. But for those who reject him, "The stone that was rejected by the builders has now become the cornerstone." And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

1Cr 1:23For the Jews (religious )require a sign, and the Greeks (philosophers,intellectual) seek after wisdom:But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

[Scuba Pete]

So Romans 12 doesn't apply to you?

Jesus was gentle and patient...

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." NIV

How about the fruits of the Spirit?

Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. NIV

Let's build on this theme:

Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. NIV

It takes little effort to tell someone they are going to hell if they don't repent. But we see that Jesus had a relationship with just a few people. He was PATIENT with his disciples don't you think?

Now, I have to ask... Do you think that badgering people is the way to win their hearts?

[roli]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

Then why all the admonitions to be gentle? I take it you don't read those scriptures and stick with just the ones that enable abusive behaviors?

Romans 12:9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 1112 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.NIV

Few were asked to be preachers. Most of us are called to win the world by our example. It's our pride that causes us to want to be the center of attention. Humility, patience and caring should ALWAYS be our hallmark. If people can't see your love, then they can't see the saviour. It's just that simple!

By the way your context of scripture seems convienient to make your point,but on the contrary it is totally out of context.
Paul is talking explicitly to the christian believers in Rom 12:9
The message of love here is from one brother to another.
Not that Paul does is advocating that we should not love those in the world.
He is talking to those who can truly love because the spirit within them

On the contrary,I declare the whole gospel message my friend,but why I am emphasizing certain points and not others is for a very good reason.
Much like why Jesus stood his ground and spoke one way to one group of people with love ,compassion and sensitivity,but to the other group he preached strong,hard and almost appeared insenitive and intolerent and so he was ,I mean towards those who refuted him and hurled insults and mockery
If you follow many of the arguements here,you will see that many want to emphasize the love of God as if it where a nice word to throw around.
It almost sounds pious and righteous to say ,we are just to love one another.
It seems to me that many idolize this thing called love ,but leave Jesus out.
Oh,they bring him in to validate their point ,but that is where it stays.
You can't have or do with Him first,but in the world it is reversed.
You know what I mean,we just want to love all man, and be at peace with one another,but it is only with Jesus that these can all be established in proper order


But many have a misconception of the love of God, in that, there is man's love and then, the love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, which can only happen to the believer and for that I felt to use the verses I did and to explain as I saw fit.
That is why Paul teaches the Christians in Rome to love ,because they had the Holy Spirit to enable them to truly love as Jesus did.
Without the love of God in their hearts they had only a veneer and imitation of love that was more superficial and conditional then real and lasting.
By conditional, I mean if people did what others wanted them to do,they would love them,but the moment someone disagreed or confronted them as Jesus did ,their love was shown to be only worn on their sleeves.
But of course you fail to realise this, so therefore you assert your conclusions.

Your christian duty scuba is to proclaim,preach,the good news with your mouth as well as with your actions and I do that daily in word ,deed and thought.
Not that this is the place to preach,but seldom can I make or defend Jesus or christianity or any christian doctrine, in what is suppose to be a theological forum without being told I am preaching.
It's virtually impossible to not share verses and other teachings of Jesus to back up a point without someone hurling that remark,you are preaching, etc.

How can a christian on this forum ,declare the truth when it is attacked,without others accusing you of preaching,or evangelising.

Suba, there is the office of a pastor,prophet,teacher,apostle,evangelist, and with that I understand that we are not all called.
But we are called to declare and defend the word and in this forum you have to be able to do that conservatively without passivity and concern to not appear a certain way to others.
Regardless,of how you speak or what you share here it will all be exploited and heralded as prejudice,preachy,judgmental,etc.

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach(to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done) the gospel to every creature.

So,what are you saying that Jesus was not loving when he called people vipers and hypocrites,but more abusive and insulting,his love is beyond our ability to comprehend.

[MaddLlama]

Speaking as an outsider, and someone who has been evangelized in many many ways, I can tell you Roli that the number of people who would consider your message and convert is very very low. People who spew Bible verses out of every orifice are not very well respected, because nobody really wants to be beaten with a message, especially not beaten with a message of love (because, badgering and treating people that way doesn't seem very loving). The Christians I respect, and who have taught me to respect rather than loathe Christianity are the ones who live by example - thier words reflect their actions and their actions reflect their words. They live Jesus' message, instead of shouting it at people. You read like a Chick Tract, and nobody but Christians like, or read those.
If you really have your heart set on winning souls, then you should probably listen to the people you're trying to convert.

How can a christian on this forum ,declare the truth when it is attacked,without others accusing you of preaching,or evangelising.

It's very easy. You seem to be in the minority of people who appear to be avangelizing in every post. Take some time to stop typing and actually read some posts from your fellow Christians of all stripes, and compare that with what you say, and you'll figure out the answer to that question.

[roli]

Originally Posted by Scuba Pete

So Romans 12 doesn't apply to you?

Jesus was gentle and patient...

Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." NIV

How about the fruits of the Spirit?

Galations 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. NIV

Let's build on this theme:

Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity. NIV

It takes little effort to tell someone they are going to hell if they don't repent. But we see that Jesus had a relationship with just a few people. He was PATIENT with his disciples don't you think?

Now, I have to ask... Do you think that badgering people is the way to win their hearts?

Jesus resists the proud but gives grace to the humble
Scuba ,you see that he is talking about christians loving other christians here byt the power of the holy Ghost

All I really have left to say to you Scuba is Jesus' first message was strong,yet loving
but not to those who where not willing to submit to him or the teaching
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mat 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:


Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

[MaddLlama]

How many of those verses are in context?

Just wondering...