What is the goal of Religion? (Jesus, Moses, Earth, Buddhism)

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Rex

You are reading an English translation from a Greek translation of a man who spoke in Aramaic.

And? do you have special access to an original aramaic text?

Yeshua did NOT worship God in public. He was a Nazarene. That is against the Nazarene Faith.

This is an assertion. have any evidence to back up your claim?

Do some research before you argue something you have absolutely no knowledge on.

Anger. Tainting the well. Attempting to hide a lack of arguement. Personal attack, and of course, childish.

I don't care what "your" Bible says.

admission that you can't answer my post.

Yeshua did not worship God in public. Speaking to God and Praying to God are not the same thing. When people worship God, they must prostrate themselves in that sense. There is also worship through actions.

according to you. your original post simply said, Jesus didn't pray in public. I showed evidence that he did. You have provided nothing as counter evidence. Rather you have insulted me, my religion and my bible. Very grown up. If you don't have an answer, just say so.

These are different words but they both mean worship English so this causes confusion. Prayer is another word for worship in english. But in Aramaic there is another word which refers to talking to God.

Thanks, I think I have it covered. The NT was written in Greek.

Worship in Greek - "proskuneo"
Pray in Greek - "proseuchomai" or sometimes even "deesis" or "erotao"
They don't look interchangeable to me and you said "pray" not worship. Why do you keep trying to change your argument?

Can you show me an example of Jesus "worshipping" God in the bible?

Why are you arguing this? You worship what you do not know.

You have no idea what I know. This is just another condescending attempt at deflecting your lack of an answer.

You follow your televangelists (unwittingly) who are not giving people the Holy Spirit. Beware of those who claim to be selling you the Holy Spirit. They are demons in disquise.

You are displaying your stunning lack of knowledge of anything I believe. Please tell me of some LDS televangelists and why you are so sure I "follow" them?

What LDS leaders claim to "sell" people the spirit? Who claims to "sell" the spirit? Oh, I see, just because YOU have something to sell here, you figure everyone else does? nice. Good luck selling your book...

If I speak to you am I praying to you?
Yes or no?

I hope not, you shouldn't pray to me. As for when Christ speaks in the NT, context is key. If He says things like "I pray" that might be a clue He is praying.

Let's use some common sense, please.

did you want me to wait?

[Jonathan Rex]

Originally Posted by comprehend

And? do you have special access to an original aramaic text?

No, but I do have access to God. We all do. Most people just don't use it because they depend on a mediator concept which was designed by moralist priests who use the divisive religion to make a moral monkey out of you. They tell you, "Dance monkey!" and you dance. They say, "Jesus is God! Repeat it!" and you say, "Jesus was God."

I want you to pause for one moment and do something. I want you to consciously think in your mind, "Is it possible that Jesus Christ never existed?" Don't say it, don't believe it. Just ask that question honestly to yourself. If you do, fear will be the first feeling that you feel. Why? Where does that fear come from? Brainwashing? Moral conditioning?

I don't need text or scriptures to know God.
Neither do you.

This is an assertion. have any evidence to back up your claim?

Nope, I just make statements and ask questions designed to make you make statements. If you want evidence, you can find somebody who will play the authority for either side. The fact is, the Bible is not evidence. The Bible cannot stand as it's own authority anymore than I can. You say, "Jesus was God." I say, "Prove it." What can you do? Show me a verse?

Anger. Tainting the well. Attempting to hide a lack of arguement. Personal attack, and of course, childish.

What makes you think I'm angry?

admission that you can't answer my post.

What makes you think that your Bible is right and all the books that were left out of the Bible are wrong? Hm? I've answered your question. You just don't "comprehend" (ironic name) it. Your ego is getting in the way. I make statements that are very vague and can be interpreted as angry or teasing (in a friendly manner) and you take them to be anger. That shows a lot about your personality. The fact that you think I am angry shows that you hold back a lot of your emotions and constrain yourself.

I have answered your post. I don't care what your Bible claims Yeshua said. If I say that he didn't say it and you say that he did and that your book is proof, then I can simply ask you to prove that Jesus Christ existed, which we both know you cannot do. Suddenly the debate is over. I don't need to prove that Jesus didn't say it. My word holds just as much validity as Pauls (or whoever wrote your Bible, Joseph Smith?)

Didn't he also claim that Cherokee are Hebrews? I'm Cherokee and I find that statement completely retarded.

according to you. your original post simply said, Jesus didn't pray in public. I showed evidence that he did. You have provided nothing as counter evidence. Rather you have insulted me, my religion and my bible. Very grown up. If you don't have an answer, just say so.

What makes your book evidence?

If I tell you that Othello was a real man and use Shakespeare's play to prove it, is that proof? Nope. Sorry chief, you have no argument. Prove that Jesus Christ existed. Not YESHUA BEN YOSEF. Prove that "Jesus Christ" existed. You cannot do it because Jesus Christ did not exist. He never existed. Yeshua Ben Yosef did. But Jesus Christ? Nope.

You want me to prove that Jesus Christ didn't pray in public and I can do that by telling you that he never existed and now it is automatically your job to prove he did (because one cannot prove a negative so I cannot be asked to prove he didn't).

And I win the debate.

Thanks, I think I have it covered. The NT was written in Greek.

Worship in Greek - "proskuneo"
Pray in Greek - "proseuchomai" or sometimes even "deesis" or "erotao"
They don't look interchangeable to me and you said "pray" not worship. Why do you keep trying to change your argument?

Yeshua was a Nazarene Jew. He spoke Hebrew and Aramaic. He would never preach to fellow Jews in Greek. Whoever wrote the Bible translated Yeshua's words from Aramaic to Greek. Translate it back. What are the words in Aramaic and Hebrew?

Can you show me an example of Jesus "worshipping" God in the bible?

Sure, the Garden the night of his arrest.
Then there is the verse where he tells the disciples specifically to pray in private behind closed doors. Would you like that verse? Matthew 6:5-18 clearly solves this whole debate. Was Jesus a hypocrite? Did he tell his followers to do something and then do the opposite?

You have no idea what I know. This is just another condescending attempt at deflecting your lack of an answer.

I've answered your question. Matthew 6:5-18.
Read it.

You are displaying your stunning lack of knowledge of anything I believe. Please tell me of some LDS televangelists and why you are so sure I "follow" them?

haha

Are you angry?

What LDS leaders claim to "sell" people the spirit? Who claims to "sell" the spirit? Oh, I see, just because YOU have something to sell here, you figure everyone else does? nice. Good luck selling your book...

Did I say anything about my book? Have I suggested that you buy it? What are you so worked up about? I haven't even mentioned my book. It's just a translation of the Tao Te Ching into Christian terms. I'm not selling God. If I were I wouldn't be carrying this conversation with you for free.

I hope not, you shouldn't pray to me. As for when Christ speaks in the NT, context is key. If He says things like "I pray" that might be a clue He is praying.

So did Shakespeare: "I pray thee, to make haste Heratio." Was he literally praying?
Context is everything. Matthew 6:5-16. Read it.

did you want me to wait?

Didn't you call me immature earlier in this post?

hahah

You are angry.
How old are you?
I'm 25.

[Comprehend]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Rex

No, but I do have access to God. We all do. Most people just don't use it because they depend on a mediator concept which was designed by moralist priests who use the divisive religion to make a moral monkey out of you. They tell you, "Dance monkey!" and you dance. They say, "Jesus is God! Repeat it!" and you say, "Jesus was God."

I want you to pause for one moment and do something. I want you to consciously think in your mind, "Is it possible that Jesus Christ never existed?" Don't say it, don't believe it. Just ask that question honestly to yourself. If you do, fear will be the first feeling that you feel. Why? Where does that fear come from? Brainwashing? Moral conditioning?

explain to me how you are sure that I do not use the "access" that is available to God. You don't know much of anything about me so it would be a pretty neat trick.

Why would I feel fear at considering the possiblity that Jesus did not exist? That is always an obvious possibility but one I had an answer to a long time ago. There is no fear involved.

Nope, I just make statements and ask questions designed to make you make statements. If you want evidence, you can find somebody who will play the authority for either side. The fact is, the Bible is not evidence. The Bible cannot stand as it's own authority anymore than I can. You say, "Jesus was God." I say, "Prove it." What can you do? Show me a verse?

I wasn't the one who made an assertion so I don't need any evidence...

What makes you think I'm angry?

I can't imagine.

What makes you think that your Bible is right and all the books that were left out of the Bible are wrong? Hm?

what makes you think I said anything like that?

I've answered your question. You just don't "comprehend" (ironic name) it. Your ego is getting in the way.

Anger again. condescending. Can't you just try to make a point or do you always have to belittle someone in order to defend your point?

I make statements that are very vague and can be interpreted as angry or teasing (in a friendly manner) and you take them to be anger. That shows a lot about your personality. The fact that you think I am angry shows that you hold back a lot of your emotions and constrain yourself.

Thanks Dr. Laura. I think it just shows that you are angry and can't defend your argument so you result to insults.

I have answered your post. I don't care what your Bible claims Yeshua said. If I say that he didn't say it and you say that he did and that your book is proof, then I can simply ask you to prove that Jesus Christ existed, which we both know you cannot do. Suddenly the debate is over.

I have offered biblical evidence of my claims. You have offered nothing but your opinion. I'll leave it to others to judge who made the stronger argument. If you want to simply declare the truth is the truth because you say it is, go right ahead. I doubt many people will listen....

I don't need to prove that Jesus didn't say it. My word holds just as much validity as Pauls (or whoever wrote your Bible, Joseph Smith?)

Yes, you are clearly just as much an authority on Jesus as Paul is... LOL. We use the KJV of the Bible. I will again forgive your ignorance of my religion.

Didn't he also claim that Cherokee are Hebrews? I'm Cherokee and I find that statement completely retarded.

Nope. He didn't. But nice of you to now increase your insults to a prophet of my religion as well as insulting the mentally handicapped. Very classy.

What makes your book evidence?

It makes a thing more likely to be true or not. You don't know what evidence is?

If I tell you that Othello was a real man and use Shakespeare's play to prove it, is that proof? Nope. Sorry chief, you have no argument. Prove that Jesus Christ existed. Not YESHUA BEN YOSEF. Prove that "Jesus Christ" existed. You cannot do it because Jesus Christ did not exist. He never existed. Yeshua Ben Yosef did. But Jesus Christ? Nope.

You want me to prove that Jesus Christ didn't pray in public and I can do that by telling you that he never existed and now it is automatically your job to prove he did (because one cannot prove a negative so I cannot be asked to prove he didn't).

No, it is obvious that you cannot prove Jesus did not pray in public. I asked you for your evidence. You seem to think it is true. Surely you base this belief on something right? I wanted to know what that was. That would be called evidence. Is it really this difficult?

Yeshua was a Nazarene Jew. He spoke Hebrew and Aramaic. He would never preach to fellow Jews in Greek. Whoever wrote the Bible translated Yeshua's words from Aramaic to Greek. Translate it back. What are the words in Aramaic and Hebrew?

If the greek is written incorrectly as you claim. then the translation from greek could not magically repair the mistakes if you translate it back into aramaic. That makes no sense.

Sure, the Garden the night of his arrest.
Then there is the verse where he tells the disciples specifically to pray in private behind closed doors. Would you like that verse? Matthew 6:5-18 clearly solves this whole debate. Was Jesus a hypocrite? Did he tell his followers to do something and then do the opposite?

Sorry, the greek word for worship doesn't appear in those verses.

DO YOU HAVE AN EXAMPLE OF JESUS "WORSHIPPING" GOD? (maybe the bigger letters will help)

Would you like to try again?

haha

Are you angry?

nope. just amazed at the lack of knowledge you are putting on display... keep going though. It gets better with each post.

Did I say anything about my book? Have I suggested that you buy it? What are you so worked up about? I haven't even mentioned my book. It's just a translation of the Tao Te Ching into Christian terms. I'm not selling God. If I were I wouldn't be carrying this conversation with you for free.

Thanks for the synopsis of your book, I'm not interested. I notice you conveniently have forgotten to answer the question. Here it is again:

What LDS leaders claim to "sell" people the spirit? Who claims to "sell" the spirit?

Didn't you call me immature earlier in this post?

nope.

How old are you?
I'm 25.

uh. I'm happily married. I'm not really interested thanks.

[James the Persian]

Praying is not worship (it may be a part of it, but it is not the same). In fact, not only does Greek (and the original is Greek, it is not a translation of Aramaic) have separate words for prayer and worship, but it actually has separate words for different kinds of worship, only one of which is the worship due God alone. Nowhere in the NT does Christ forbid public worship. In fact he went to the Temple, Himself. More to the point, though, if you say that the Bible is not evidence then why do you even try to use it to support your claim? In effect, so far, your argument has been 'you shouldn't worship in public because in my opinion you shouldn't'. That's pretty circular don't you think?

Basically, though, this whole thread appears to have drifted off topic because I poionted out that many of our religions (and this wasn't a Christian specific thread at all) require corporate worship and that you seem to disapprove. Strangely enough, rather than explaining why, you've got on your soap box and preached at us that we shouldn't. Fact is, though, that that is merely your unevidenced opinion and in fact we do, whether you like it or not. Would you care to try again?

James

[Jonathan Rex]

Originally Posted by JamesThePersian

Praying is not worship (it may be a part of it, but it is not the same). In fact, not only does Greek (and the original is Greek, it is not a translation of Aramaic) have separate words for prayer and worship, but it actually has separate words for different kinds of worship, only one of which is the worship due God alone. Nowhere in the NT does Christ forbid public worship. In fact he went to the Temple, Himself. More to the point, though, if you say that the Bible is not evidence then why do you even try to use it to support your claim? In effect, so far, your argument has been 'you shouldn't worship in public because in my opinion you shouldn't'. That's pretty circular don't you think?

If my logic were circular, it would be no different than the Bible's claim to being the Word of God. How do you know the Bible is the Word of God? Because it says so.
However, I did provide the verse and neither of you have read it.

Matthew 6:5-16
It's clear as day. I'm not saying that it is an authority. That is the trap that this lawyer above you tried to set. He asked me to prove it using the Bible. So I did. That doesn't mean that I consider the New Testament to be an authority. It simply means that Yeshua says it in the book, "Go into your house, shut your door and pray."
How more clear can it get? Read Matthew 6:5-16.

Basically, though, this whole thread appears to have drifted off topic because I poionted out that many of our religions (and this wasn't a Christian specific thread at all) require corporate worship and that you seem to disapprove. Strangely enough, rather than explaining why, you've got on your soap box and preached at us that we shouldn't. Fact is, though, that that is merely your unevidenced opinion and in fact we do, whether you like it or not. Would you care to try again?

James

No, you can have your religion. If it's working out for you, whatever. I'm not discussing anything else with you on this matter. Neither of you are paying attention. Dude above you is now making homosexual references (very mature) and is using Red Herring to divert everything I say to him. The entire exchange between him and I has fallen into him using Ad Hominem attacks.

I got better things to be doing with my time than debate with a man who can't even control his emotions. He can play his lawyer games with somebody else. Anybody who promises you the truth and asks you for money is trying to sell God to you. That is what all churches do. God needs 10% of your money? Uh huh.

[Hema]

Hinduism-
I noticed you mentioned Krishna. Krishna is an avatar of God. There are numerous names for God, however God is just one. God is even Allah, Christ, Buddha etc. Anyway, in Hinduism, one must realize that a person's true nature is Atman or Spirit - a spark of the Divine. We must see this Divinity in ourselves, in others, in all life forms and all of creation. We must love and respect that Divinity in all its manifestations. The body is only temporaray and God is the final destination.

[Jonathan Rex]

Originally Posted by Hema

Hinduism-
I noticed you mentioned Krishna. Krishna is an avatar of God. There are numerous names for God, however God is just one. God is even Allah, Christ, Buddha etc. Anyway, in Hinduism, one must realize that a person's true nature is Atman or Spirit - a spark of the Divine. We must see this Divinity in ourselves, in others, in all life forms and all of creation. We must love and respect that Divinity in all its manifestations. The body is only temporaray and God is the final destination.

We (you and I) share the same faith.
Not Hindu, per se, but philosophically.