Common Misconceptions About Humanism (moral, Earth, choices, choice, experience)

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Where and when did Humanism originate?

Well in terms of Western society, which which I am most familiar (having grown up in the U.S.) it originated in Judaism. (Or I should say that's where I am aware of the first record of it.) It had been traditionally accepted that whatever the king said was right. That somehow by virtue of their position they could dictate what was moral and what was not. And the prophets of Israel basically said, no way. Even kings are subject to a higher law, and a king can be held accountable when he violates another human being. Witness King David being called to task in his own court for killing Bathsheba's first husband because he wanted her for himself.

If Jay were here, he'd concur. The basis of Judaism is humanistic. Throughout Jewish scripture humans argue with even God. They don't always win the argument but the act of arguing itself is not questioned.

But I don't mean to say that this was the singular starting point. I think the humanist impulse originated in many places independantly. I think that Buddhism is humanist in its emphasis on personal experience over dogma or even reason, and the belief that any human can attain nibbana.

What happened in the 14th century could not have happened without what came before it. The seed of the idea was already there and had been there for centuries, getting better defined over time.

[Sunstone]

Do you think the ancient Greeks had anything to do with the origin of Humanism in the West?

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Do you think the ancient Greeks had anything to do with the origin of Humanism in the West?

Of course!! But, (and I may be off on my dates) didn't they come after the ancient Hebrews?

[eudaimonia]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Well in terms of Western society, which which I am most familiar (having grown up in the U.S.) it originated in Judaism. (Or I should say that's where I am aware of the first record of it.) It had been traditionally accepted that whatever the king said was right. That somehow by virtue of their position they could dictate what was moral and what was not. And the prophets of Israel basically said, no way. Even kings are subject to a higher law, and a king can be held accountable when he violates another human being. Witness King David being called to task in his own court for killing Bathsheba's first husband because he wanted her for himself.

This strikes me as a very weak link. While this might be the earliest recorded instance of humanism in the West, isn't it more likely that it is Greek humanism that is actually responsible for humanism today?


eudaimonia,

Mark

[lilithu]

Originally Posted by eudaimonia

This strikes me as a very weak link. While this might be the earliest recorded instance of humanism in the West, isn't it more likely that it is Greek humanism that is actually responsible for humanism today?

If you would care to explain why you think the Greeks were more influential, I would be happy to listen.

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by lilithu

Of course!! But, (and I may be off on my dates) didn't they come after the ancient Hebrews?

Dang if I can remember when the Doric invasion was! At any rate, I do recall that by 800 B.C. there were Doric Greeks living in cities along the Agean coast of Asia Minor. And at least one of them is recorded to have formented a rebellion against a king by pointing out that the king was neither a God, nor derived his position from the Gods, but was rather just another man like all men. Scandalous!

[Victor]

Considering humanism is a component of a variety of philosophical systems, I can't imagine it completely disagreeing or agreeing with theism.

[Victor]

I thought this was a good read for those interested. It's more of a comparative between Christian Humanism and Secular Humanism.

http://web.archive.org/web/200306040...mus/RAZ513.HTM

~Victor