Is belief in a Creator rational? (Earth, beliefs, choice, creation)

[AbdulMaalik]

‘Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm belief.’ [Qur’an 52:35-36]

Life is full of many questions. For many, when the questions are raised on what is the purpose of life or whether a Creator exists or not, it seems out of place. These questions although natural are ignored for a variety of reasons. Take the situation at university. Some say these questions can never be answered so why stop and ponder upon them. Others say it’s not important whether a Creator exists or not because “I am here to better my career prospects” No matter what the reasons given one thing is clear, understanding your purpose in life shapes how one will undertake his/her actions in life. As an example, would someone play football while missing his university exams? Or would someone stay out all night at a party the day before he/she has to hand in vital coursework? The answer for most people will be ‘no’, because students who want to obtain a degree know what their purpose at university is. So we find that comprehending our purpose at university would shape what actions we do and when we would do them.
What about life? Surely it is of greater importance to know what our purpose is, if this will directly affect how we live it. Clearly then we need to think and contemplate how we see life. This leads us to ask some difficult questions on how man, life and even the universe came into existence, and what is going to happen to us after we die. It’s from answering these fundamental questions can we know our purpose in life and how this will affect our actions.
As Muslims, we believe that a Creator exists and that this Creator has assigned a criterion from which we base our actions. Furthermore we will be accountable for all of our actions we perform. Hence, Islam is of paramount concern for Muslims, for it shapes their viewpoint on life as well as his/her actions. Islam seeks to answer the question of life through the use of the mind. Therefore blindly following the religion of our forefathers or celebrities is wrong according to Islam. Each one of us must establish his/her belief through the use the mind.

‘Verily in the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for people who think deeply.’ [Qur’an 3:190]

It is through this deep thinking that Muslims must establish the belief in where humanity, life and the universe came from, and what will happen to us when we die. In order to answer these questions we need to prove whether a Creator exists and whether the Qur’an is the word of the Creator. These two aspects of belief are the basis upon which the Shahada (declaration of Islamic belief) is built.
Can science answer the question – ‘Is there a Creator?’
Some argue science disproves the need for the Creator and hence there is no need to resort to a set of religious beliefs. They say this because they believe that science has answered the questions as to how things came into existence and that this precluded the need for a Creator.
In reality science does not deal with ‘why’ things exist as they do but ‘how’ they exist. Science can explain ‘how gravity affects movement of bodies’, but it cannot explain ‘why gravity exists’. Science may explain the charge of an electron but it fundamentally cannot explain why it has a negative charge. Hence science has a limited application to explain how the universe operates. In addition, science requires to test and experiment the thing it wishes to understand, therefore the issue of a Creator will be beyond the ability to test and experiment upon, thus the question of a Creator is beyond the remit of science. In order to illustrate this, look at a painting in the light of science. Science can explain the different colours, the components that make the colours, the material used to make the canvas etc. But science could not explain that a painter was needed to produce the painting. Therefore science is limited to studying that which is within the universe and that which can be tested, and so it is invalid to use this approach in answering the question of whether a Creator exists or not.
As Muslims we would use a different method to establish our thoughts about the existence of a Creator and this method is termed the ‘rational method of thinking’. By this we mean that rational thought is built upon four components: the reality, the senses that transmit the reality, the distinguishing brain and previous information. Therefore, the process of rational thought is where one senses the reality using his senses that transmit it to the brain, which links the reality that is sensed to the previous information, hence producing a thought. If we return back to the example of the painting when we sense the painting we realise that the paint does not necessarily fall into an intricate pattern that produces the painting instead something other than the painting is also required to produce the painting -that is a painter.
So using this rational method of thinking we can discuss the rational proof for a Creator.
The rational proof for the existence of the Creator
In order to understand the question of whether a Creator exists or not, we first have to sense the universe around us. By doing so we come to the clear conclusion that everything within the universe is defined by certain attributes and that these attributes are quantifiable. Whether we sense water with its particular boiling point, or the sun with its particular size, shape and temperature, or if it’s an atom with its particular atomic number all of these are definable and quantifiable -hence we would term these things ‘limited’. No matter what is sensed within the universe all things are ultimately limited. Furthermore, the universe is the sum of all-that-exists, and because all-that-exists is quantifiable and definable, then the universe is the sum of all-that-is-quantifiable hence the universe is also quantifiable. A further point to note is that all limited things that are sensed cannot exist on their own accord; they also require other limited things to exist. Take this piece of paper for example, it has a certain size and shape, thus we will term it limited but the paper also required wood to exist. Wood is also limited and also requires trees to exist in order for it to exist; trees require sunlight and carbon dioxide for it to exist; the sun requires the fusion of hydrogen for it to also exist. In truth, everything we observe or sense within the universe is limited and dependant, i.e. they require other things to exist in order for it to exist.
This leads us to three possible conclusions.
1)Everything depends upon each other in an infinite chain of interdependent limited things.
2)Everything depends upon other things in an elaborate cycle such that they achieve mutual dependence, without the need for something to initiate it.
3)There needs to exist something independent that initiates creation i.e. a Creator.
Firstly, it is impossible for everything to depend upon other things in an infinite chain. To prove this point imagine a row of dominoes, for the last domino to fall it needs to wait for the previous domino to fall first, and for that domino to fall over it also needs to wait for its’ previous domino to also fall first. Now if there were an infinite chain of dominoes, meaning that there is no beginning domino to initiate the fall of dominoes, then would any of the dominoes fall over? Of course not! In reality an infinite number of dominoes mean each domino would have to wait for an infinite amount of time, meaning they would have to wait forever. Therefore if everything in the universe depends upon another thing and this chain goes on forever then nothing would exist as they would continually wait for the preceding thing to exist. Therefore a chain of interdependent things that goes on forever cannot exist.
As for the second possibility that everything depends upon every other thing in an elaborate cycle, we can also show that this cannot occur. If we return to the analogy of the water cycle then we can say that for water to exist it depends upon rain and for rain to exist it depends upon clouds and clouds depend upon evaporation of water. However, water does not exist as yet; hence nothing in the cycle exists until something initiates the cycle. Furthermore, we can understand this point by another simple illustration by stating that A depends upon B and B depends upon A, this is a form of mutual dependence. For A to exist B needs to exist but B doesn’t exist until A exists, therefore nothing would exist! This simple demonstration proves that things cannot depend upon other things in a form of a cycle, i.e. mutual dependence without something external first initiating the cycle.
Hence this leads to the final possibility as the only possibility to explain the universe around us. That is something independent requires to exist upon which every other thing ultimately depends upon. For this independent force to exist then it must be other than limited, i.e. other than quantifiable and definable. Therefore this independent thing must be unlimited. This necessitates that this unlimited, independent force chose to create and was not forced to create. Choice signifies will and intelligence. As a result we come to the rational conclusion that an independent, unlimited, intelligent force created the universe. For Muslims we call this Creator, Allah (swt).

“Say, ‘Allah is one, who is self sufficient, neither He begets, nor was He begotten and nothing is comparable unto Him.’” [Qur’an 112]

[doppelgänger]

Sometimes the only rational answer is "I don't know"?

The transition to imagining an objectified being to substitute for "I don't know" is not rational even if it is comforting.

[Sunstone]

Belief in a creator seems to me a leap of faith.

[James the Persian]

It seems to me that it is neither rational nor irrational per se. Some view it as irrational, and for them it might very well be, but for another person it may genuinely be the most rational way to explain their experiences. Ultimately as neither the existence nor non-existence of a Creator can ever be proven, there is a requirement for faith (which is not rational) to either believe or disbelieve. The most rational position, then, would appear to be a studied agnosticism but I would have to say that from my perspective, and with my experiences, belief is the most rational position to hold for me.

James

[Buttercup]

1)Everything depends upon each other in an infinite chain of interdependent limited things.

2)Everything depends upon other things in an elaborate cycle such that they achieve mutual dependence, without the need for something to initiate it.

3)There needs to exist something independent that initiates creation i.e. a Creator

I've heard this same argument used to define a Creator for years. Unfortunately...the only thing this line of thinking points to is the fact that we don't know. It's not a definite conclusion of anything.

Let's side with the faulty argument and say it does lead to a Creator. The next question I have is how could we know anything about this Creator who remains silent?

And then you'll say...."Well, he's written a great and holy book telling you everything you need to know!". My next comment will be, "Oh really? Which one?"

[Random]

Everything that has a beginning has an end -- The Oracle

[roli]

Originally Posted by Sunstone

Belief in a creator seems to me a leap of faith.

Rational No,absolutely not ,the world says seeing is believing,yet they seem to only use that line of thought when it comes to God.
Checking the food they eat in a restaurant under a microscope for poison,is absurd,checking the brakes on their car before they drive it is a waste of time.
Why don't we check and verify that the plane we are about to take 30,000 ft in the air is totally safe to leave the ground.
Why don't we agree that it takes the same faith for that as it does to believe in God
With the above we take for granted someone has done their job and checked it over and we trust or have faith in them as well.
So we have faith in the car,restaurant,plane and those who are called to service them

Faith is the intial step,but if it ended there I would say keep it,I might as well believe in the toothfairy.There must be action on our part
It's what God imparts to the one who steps out in faith that sets it apart from other religions.
That is religion is man reaching up to God relationship through faith is God reaching down to man,by Imparting his spirit,presence,power,annointing into the believer.
This is not to be compared with any other experience
But that step takes brokenness,humility,complete surrender of self and repentance
That is the greatest obstacle man must first overcome before he can experience the hand of God on his life

[Sunstone]

Originally Posted by roli

Rational No,absolutely not ,the world says seeing is believing,yet they seem to only use that line of thought when it comes to God.
Checking the food they eat in a restaurant under a microscope for poison,is absurd,checking the brakes on their car before they drive it is a waste of time.
Why don't we check and verify that the plane we are about to take 30,000 ft in the air is totally safe to leave the ground.
Why don't we agree that it takes the same faith for that as it does to believe in God
With the above we take for granted someone has done their job and checked it over and we trust or have faith in them as well.
So we have faith in the car,restaurant,plane and those who are called to service them

Faith is the intial step,but if it ended there I would say keep it,I might as well believe in the toothfairy.There must be action on our part
It's what God imparts to the one who steps out in faith that sets it apart from other religions.
That is religion is man reaching up to God relationship through faith is God reaching down to man,by Imparting his spirit,presence,power,annointing into the believer.
This is not to be compared with any other experience
But that step takes brokenness,humility,complete surrender of self and repentance
That is the greatest obstacle man must first overcome before he can experience the hand of God on his life

Roli, would you quit proselytizing? It's not only bad manners, it's against the Forum rules.